The first steps to folding wisdom

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Most contributions were edited [like this], some spelling errors were corrected. Contributions before August 1997 bear no date tag.

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Disclaimers

What is a folding bicycle? What is Brompton?

What is a folding bicycle?

The folding world first of all classifies bicycles as:

• Cumbersomes, standard one-piece bicycles without facilities for transporting them.
• Separables can be taken apart, mostly using tools. You end up with a few smaller pieces.
• The frame of folders hinges in one or more places. Sometimes parts need to be taken out, but usually you end up with a single folded package.
• The ultimate in folding is a compact, a bicycle folded to the size of a suitcase in less than a minute.

Why is it wonderful?

Because unlike "normal" bicycles, a folder can be:

• stored in a cupboard, or in a boat or caravan;
• carried through doors, corridors and in lifts;
• transported as luggage over long distances in plane, train, tram, bus or car;
• left under your desk, barstool or shopping trolley, so you needn't worry about it being stolen, vandalised or tortured by weather
• repaired on the kitchen table;
• cleaned in the bathtub;
• shared between all ages and genders, because most folders come in one size with lots of room for adjustment.

Not convinced yet? With a folder, you can:

• enjoy bicycling more, through commuting (travelling daily to your work) or touring with part of the journey spent in plane, train, tram, bus or car;
• stop commuting or touring when bad weather or a severe puncture occurs, and continue or return in other vehicles;
• park your car when you enter the city and cheerfully rush past the traffic jam; remember the air inside a car is three times more poluted than at the cyclists mouth
• get rid of your car and save lots of money, not to mention society and the planet.

And why not?

• Because of the unisex, unishape, adjustable rendering of most brands of folders, the fit is never ideal. On the other hand, some (Bike Fridays) are built to fit.
• Weight and other factors of efficiency suffer under the constraints for foldability.
• Parts and dealers are harder to find than for standard bicycles.
• Obviously folders are more expensive than cumbersomes of similar quality.

Pro's & con's of small wheeled bicycles

Wheels cannot be folded, and you need two of them, so if you want a somewhat compact folder, it has to sail on small wheels. Admitted, the ordinary big bicycle wheel:

• has a slightly lower rolling resistance, given the same tyre quality and appropriate pressure;
• takes longer to be ground away by abrasive brake blocks;
• and heats up less while braking;
• has long spokes which absorb shocks better than short ones;
• is easier to build around a big featuring an internal dynamo, brake or gears;
• reaches high gears without requiring a gigantic front chainring;
• has a far greater chance of negociating an unnoticed shallow kerbs;
• gets you further off-road;
• looks normal, whereas small wheels suggest the rider is a clown.

But, on the other hand:

• small wheels are lighter, which defeats not only gravity but also rotational latency; i.e. they accelerate faster;
• when wet, and not enjoying the virtues of a hub brake, the brake blocks/shoes have less water to clear before the braking gets though;
• small wheels go out of true much less: no need to interrupt touring because of some broken spokes (and even if you carry spare spokes, they are easier to store);
• they result in a low, genderless, easy to step over frame;
• they are easier to work on, e.g. clean or fix a puncture.
  In particular, the Brompton makes wheel maintenance extremely easy because it can be parked so that both wheels rotate freely and are accessible. No need for special stands, hooks or the hassle of turning the bike upside down.

Hub vs. derailleur gears

What is a Brompton?

Brompton is an English brand of folders. They have a few models that are variations on a patented frame. It makes the most compact folded package on the market, yet a very roadworthy bicycle. Therefore it is considered the best folding bicycle (as opposed to folding bicycle).

Is a Brompton really suitable for...?

Can you really ride more than 10 miles on that thing?

• Andrew Brooks, Jul 1998:
  I've just bought a new £800.00 mountain bike (Bontrager Privateer - LX/STX groupset, V-brakes, front suspension etc) to do some off road riding. It's interesting just how good the Brompton ride is in comparison (on the road). The MTB wins on rigidity, weight and 'feeling of strength', but by God the Brommy is quick off the mark and very manoeuvrable. I had feared my pleasure in the Brompton would be compromised by my new steed, but not at all. I'd still choose to ride it around town, just for the ride.
• Mike Hessey, May 2000:
  I did 60 miles in a day on a more or less standard Brompton T5 a few years back and didn't suffer any repercussions- I THINK I had a Brooks Swift (Titanium) saddle at that time.

It's frail, isn't it?

• Deborah Eacock, Oct 1999:
  Consider the source of this comment. The disturbing comment that I have heard is that Bike Friday, due to the lack of suspension acting on many pivot points and quick releases, tend to get loose and sloppy with much use.
  The Metro is BF's cheapest model and does not fold.
  The Brompton IS NOT frail. I have used my T5 constantly for more than three years in all conditions. It is still tight and reliable as when new. I am 6'2", 165#, with the long seat-post. My Moulton Mark 3 is rock-solid, but it does not fold.
• De Clarke, Oct 1999:
  Hmm, I am on the heavy side and I don't feel as if my Bromi is "frail" -- in fact it seems very sturdily engineered, which accounts for its own not-insignificant weight :-)
• Rob Cope, Oct 1999:
  No, as the Portly sub-genus of Brompton riders can confirm.
  I've broken various bits of a 1993 frame. Covered by guarantee & the newer frame parts are tougher (though usually lighter) than originals. When Brompton refer to 'constant development' on the leaflets, it's meant for real.
  Anyone worried that I have broken frame bits should appreciate that I dish out serious abuse levels: trailer hauling, down chalk pits, rough paths... If the factory ever shivers at what some of us do to their little bikes, it doesn't show. Presumably the strengthening process is accelerated by us plump types straining things.
  Nothing's unbreakable, including Fridays. These had a briefly poor reputation in UK some years ago, as one small batch came in with weak stems. Long resolved, I hasten to add, & the various Fridays are excellent bikes: just don't fold as small & neat as a Brom.
  Also, I don't see Dave Holladay switching to Fridays. Nuff said.
• sdf, Oct 1999:
  I have owned both a Bike Friday New World Tourist and a Brompton L5. I recognise that one can get into a semantic argument about the meaning of the word 'frail'; however, one of the things I really disliked about the Bike Friday was that it felt loose and rattled a lot whereas the Brompton feels solid. I accept that the two bikes are made for different purposes but the Brompton in regular use has a very solid feel.
• Stephen Casey, Oct 1999:
  "Solid"? Did you say "the Brompton feels solid"? I won't get into a "semantic argument" over the word "frail", but please define "solid". If you want my opinion about the stock Brompton (I have an L5 for what it is worth) it is a piece of . . . no, no let's not say that . . . let's just say it is NOT "solid". I should say that I am a frequent user of the Brompton, however, and am ever-amazed at how little engineering improvements have been made to make this bike a truly "solid" design. Rarely a day goes by that I am not fidgeting, tightening, or bending something to get it to run. I say just bring along a 10 lb (that's about 4.5 kg) tool set and you'll be fine.
• Chris Newport, Oct 1999:
  I've had a Brompton L5 for 2.5 years and I've put over a thousand miles on it riding canal towpaths and commuting in London.
  I now also have a Berndes [the German folder Bernds??].
  My take on the 'frailty' of the Brompton is that it flexes more than some folders and I have the impression that rear subframe and 16" wheels are quite highly stressed carrying my 200-odd pounds weight, almost all the weight being on the rear wheel. Certainly the Berndes feels rock solid in comparison (in fact more than some cumbersomes I've owned).
  But the Brompton frame is designed to withstand that stress. The 'frailty' is largely a perception based on appearance and the small amount of movement that is designed in to absorb the stresses.
• Ian Charles, Oct 1999:
  To me, the Brompton feels like a conventional bike (in the best sense). I fail to understand how anyone can describe it as 'frail' - on the contrary, I wonder sometimes whether it needs to be quite as 'solid' and if some further weight gains could be made. OK, I'm nearer the 150 pound mark and maybe heavier and taller folk don't find it as comfortable. But surely with the various adjustments possible, the Brompton must suit all but the most extreme persons in terms of height/weight?
• Stringer, Mark, Oct 1999:
  I was thinking about this last night as I rolled along the Hudson River on a "under construction" bike path. Over gravel, dirt and pavement I the bike felt good. It's no mountain bike, but seems to be able to handle the often bumpy, pot-holed streets of Manhattan. Also, it can withstand the forces incurred when climbing very steep hills. My Strida could never make the climb from 125 st to 110 st on Broadway, it would've collapsed.
  So after 6 days of Manhattan rough rides, I'd say solid
• David Edge, Oct 1999:
  I don't recall Brompton ever having to do a product recall, and I rather fancy that Friday once did. [In 2002, Brompton sort of recalled the handlebars on older models]
• Custfold, Oct 1999:
  There are weak points in any bike design. The original Brompton which John Grimshaw bought for Sustrans split at the seat clamp but was re-welded and used by the late David Groome for many years - and the 1988 series of Bromptons moved the clamp to the back of the seatpost.
  I have had rear frames fail (6 or 7) - less since the design was changed to remove stress raisers, and I also had bracing added at weak point.
  I have had main frames smile (fail) (3 - although all but one were 1988 design without the reinforced weld)
  I have had front main frames fail (4-6) and cured this with reinforced front frame.
  I have had luggage blocks shear off the bolts (carrying 30 Kg or more though)
  The old seatposts bent and used to eventually snap of the tops - cured by my pre production concept of an extending post.
  Oh and handlebars - cured by using steel ones.
  But be aware that I [Tips, tricks & tinkering - Dave Holladay] used to break one conventional frame a year anyway.

Yes but I'm really heavy...

• Paul Brady ATT, Jan 2000:
  Well, I way 205lbs and I carry a laptop and sometimes a gym bag, all that is about 250lbs, and I have not had a problem yet, except keeping it all on the bike.

Frame material

• Custfold:
  The Brompton's mild steel construction is a real saving grace when, like me you punish it. Cromo frames I have ridden usually fracture about once a year, instantly and catastrophically. Mild steel has plenty of helpful grain boundaries and crack stoppers, and MS frames have a pleasant habit of deforming to extraordinary contortions before a gentle tearing of the remaining section gives a catastrophic failure. I am on my third main frame, but with my record of destroying conventional bikes [Tips, tricks & tinkering - Dave Holladay] the performance of the Brompton is exceptional. Useful indicators are the way in which the paint film lifts around a crack - any unexplained shedding of paint should be checked thoroughly, and the frame will distort sufficiently to make riding feel very odd - crab like - well before you are likely to get dumped gracefully on the road. Brompton have been very helpful in analysing any problems, and this has usually resulted in design improvements where a potential long term stress raiser for the less strenuous rider is highlighted. If you start bashing pedals on corners, check the main frame for possible distortion. If the rear hinge, or connections to it fail the bike can still be 'ridden' with care by tying this hard on to the main bike.

Can tall people ride a Brompton?

• Steven D. Hanel:
  They are extremely more adaptable than a normal wedgie. Bromptons have a larger seat post if the standard doesn't fit. The Bike Friday is built for you to your preferences. The Dahon's are pretty broad range of fit but I don't think they have additional fitting options.
• Channell Wasson:
  Andy, The Brompton is a one size fits all machine. Although the fit may not be perfect. The adjustment takes place through the seat tube or pillar being positioned comfortably for a reasonable reach to the pedals. The taller you are the more you may have to lean forward to reach the handle bars. People from 5' to 6' 5" have purchased Bromptons and have found them satisfactory after a break-in period.
• Stein Somers:
  Last weekend, after 1 month on the Brompton and 600km under its wheels, I tried my good "normal", size 63 light touring bike again. I wasn't particularily impressed by the sitting comfort and found the gigantic wheels quite silly.
  I also compared the sitting position, with aligned pedal axis:
  
  • the Brompton saddle is 4cm more to the rear because the frame tube is fixed behind the bottom bracket and not on it, while the angle of the seat tube and pillar is identical;
  • the front wheel is 2cm less to the front;
    
  • the rear wheel is 5cm less to the rear.
• Leonard Rubin:
  The easiest, cheapest solution is to add a quick release to the handlebar/stem interface. It is absolutely essential that only one that is well-matched to the job in terms of strength, quality and geometry be used, as this is a rather critical bolt! I sell a proprietary one that is particularly well-suited to the job, but if you tend to be mechanically careless or absent-minded (you probably know if that's a fair description of you), then it's a bad idea altogether. If you are tuned in to adjustments, it's a fantastic addition, as it lets you achieve the much more efficient (and in my own, American opinion, much more comfortable for all but the shortest, flattest rides) standard, slightly stretched position, compared to the nearly bolt-upright one dictated by the bar position required for folding. The penalty is one additional step in the folding procedure (return bars to upright position), but that's a small price to pay!
  I leave the brake levers just a tad loose, so that I can swivel them into the ideal position, as well, but this is a very dicey area in which to be tossing about recommendations, so I never said it!
• Rob Cope, Jul 1998:
  I am 6'2 as well and use a Brompton every day. Yes, it would be nice to have a slightly longer reach (to match my Moulton Deluxe) and the very upright position is about as aerodynamic as a brick. But I do not find it uncomfortable, even for longer distances (though I think 'horses for courses' applies in spadeloads). You will need the extended seatpost, possibly the adjustable telescopic version plus a decent saddle. And it is an acquired taste: first time I tried a Brompton, I could not deal with the light handling and apparent back-heaviness. Now I revel in the nippy manoeuvrability. Borrow or hire one for the weekend, preferably with the clip-on front bag, then decide if the plusses for the minuses win out.
• Stein Somers, Jul 1998:
  I'm 6'5"/ 1m96, spend almost an hour a day on the telescopic seat post, and would also like higher handlebars. I've mounted L-shape bar ends so as to higher the steering bar a luxurious 15 cm. However the brakes and bells are too far away for city traffic, and I have to unlock and twist the left bar end to make the handlebars fold (where it serves to retain the handlebars unlike the underpowered clip).
  The soon to be produced recumbent kit features a higher stem, but it is meant for that laid back position where the legs and not the arms hold one's body back. It has been suggested here that Brompton warranty fades when you change anything to the stem or handlebars; indeed the stem bolt has some a "marking paint" on it. I wonder if there is an agreement about this issue between Juliana Neuss and Brompton?
  By the way the Birdy's special telescopic stem reaches only an inch higher than the Brompton's ordinary stem, on the other hand the straight bar doesn't get in the way of one's knees.
• Phil Gough, Oct 1998:
  I had the good fortune to buy my T5 from a 6 foot 4 in or so guy who found the handlebar to saddle distance too short for his sense of security. He bought the machine but didn't persevere with it so I got a new-condition machine and accessories at a big discount. I would guess that it is leg length that is the problem, and people of course vary a lot in this measurement.
• Willi Mindak, Oct 98:
  I'm about the same height (1.86m), and I weight quite a bit more. If the Brompton is equipped with the telescopic seat post, and the saddle is moved back a bit I find the seating position tolerable, even on longer runs (I do the occasional 25 mile run). It is a bit too upright, though, and consequently the air resistance is quite noticeable. I find that out of the saddle work is too cramped to be maintained for any length of time.
  I actually prefer the more upright stance the Brompton forces me into, because I'm beyond the first flush of youth, and who wants to do his back in? The crank- arm length is o.k. for taller riders, but beware of kerbs and corners. When pedalling through even a mild curve the inside pedal hits the ground with sometimes comic, sometimes more serious consequences (I have the scars to prove it). For that reason I would not recommend longer cranks.
• Mr Bob Imrie, Oct 1998:
  I am 6'4" (no I didn't sell Phil his bike) and I find my T5 (with its extended seat pillar) perfectly comfortable. But I ride it very sedately and leisurely. It's not one for a racing angle!

Honking up a hill

• Stein Somers, Feb 2000:
  I wonder if any of the taller, stronger readers can "honk" on a Brompton, if I picture it correctly? It's anatomically impossible for my 1m96 body to raise out of a Brompton's saddle and pedal uphill.
• Mark James, Feb 2000:
  I don't so much Honk as swing the bike from side to side with my rather nifty super stubbie bar ends. Its makes a difference on the steeper hills, I tend to use the gears more i.e. down into 2nd at every stop and whizzzzzz I'm away. I am 186 cm and 75 kg and have tilted the handlebars forward and non standard saddle right back, although with Cateye Lamp my knees knock against it if I'm nay careful

Can children ride a Bromptons?

• Bob Imrie, Jul 1999:
  My son David, now nearly 9, took to my Bromp T5 at the end of the last Ventrnor FF. I bought him a secondhand red L5 shortly after, and he has ridden it ever since. He has gradually raised the seat pillar as he has grown (he's now 4 feet 10 inches!) and also has the handlebars angled towards him. As a parent it would have cost a fortune to equip him with a new pseudo mountain bike every year, so the money on the L5 was well spent.
• Chris Newport, Jul 1999:
  My 3 daughters - ages 10, 13, 16 - all borrow my B from time to time.
  The (average sized) 10 y.o. has to have the seat post very low, to the point where the bottom of the post is near the ground and the bike cannot do first fold.
  This and the (not ideal even for me) near vertical position of the brake levers, plus the force the brakes need to operate, is the limiting factor. I would guess 9 or 10 is the earliest a child could *safely* ride a B.

Won't it fold while riding?

• Anthony Cartmell, Sep 1997:
  When unfolded the rear wheel assembly presses against a rubber block, which compresses when you sit on the bike. This provides suspension to make the ride more comfortable.
  Unless you plan on cycling off cliffs the rear suspension won't fold while you are riding the bike. On bumpy terrain the rubber suspension block absorbs the bumps quite well, but stays very compressed by your weight on it.
• Peter Amey, Sep 1997:
  the same pivoting section is what provides the rear suspension. There is absolutely no problem with this arrangement in practice and, if it really troubled someone, a simple strap round the seat post can be used to hold the rear section in place. I have never felt the need to do this.
• Megan Lynch, Sep 1997:
  I have ridden off of curbs many times, sometimes even with loads on the rack. It has never been a problem. The only time the rear assembly bothers me is when I'm trying to pick the bike up and turn it while walking alongside it and navigating narrow locations. I have learned to put my foot under the tire to nudge it while I lift and turn.
• You can lock the rear triangle: Tips, tricks & tinkering - Stop your rear end from sagging

Don't the brake and gear cables stretch and you need to readjust them every week?

• mark stringer, Dec 1999:
  I've been riding everyday for a a few months and I've adjusted both breaks once.
• Ian Charles, Dec 1999:
  Never had a problem with this in ten years of owning (two) Bromptons. Must be a fault in the way the cables are routed or in the way you are folding the bike.

Can you ride out of the saddle?

• Ian Charles, Dec 1999:
  I like riding out of the pedal [sic] sometimes - if only to gain more power climbing a hill or against the wind (some time ago a previous contributor made an interesting suggestion that Europeans tend to push harder in higher gears even if it means pedalling more slowly while Americans go for cadence and easier gears); in any event, doing this with the Brompton definitely feels awkward at first but one eventually does get used to the slightly more wobbly contraptions beneath.
• Paul Brady ATT, Dec 1999:
  You will get used to the feeling of standing on the Bromie. It is a little strange at first but after some time you will get the hang of it.

Is it slow?

• Andrew Henry:
  I haven't done any touring on a Brompton per se. However, I find that I am usually about 30% slower on a Brompton than on a decent touring bike on typical journeys. I suspect that some of this is because there is less incentive to push so hard when the riding position is upright.
  In practice, a Brompton might well be an awful lot faster if you can use public transport every so often.
• Stein Somers:
  I've consistently measured a 10% delay, although these latest months I'm actually leveling with my old records.
• Andrew Brooks, Jul 1997:
  It's never occurred to me before but the bike has tremendous acceleration. I suppose because of the low angular momentum of the wheels.
• PHolden960, Jun 1999:
  On my B. I seem to average 10-11, on the MTB's I seem to get 11-13 for similar routes. Aerodynamics, maybe? Nothing else to look at, maybe? I figure its faster off a start, but looses some in distance full bore. (I do have the 18% lower gearing L-5)
• Joerg Scheiner, Jun 1999:
  On my daily trip to work I think the Brompton is as fast as my mountain bike.
• PHolden960, Jul 1999:
  A quick experiment yields surprising results, although they may be tentative. Anyway, here they are. Over relatively flat terrain, same traffic conditions and time-of-day, using a HRM to control for "impute" (keeping it at ~115/ min, just before a brow-sweat):

  	Brompton	Raleigh M-80 MTB
  Miles	4.3	4.4
  Minutes	21:0	~21
  Average	12.2mph	13.0 (HRM ~130/)
  Max	22.5mph	26.5
  and again
  Miles	6.4	6.6
  Minutes	31:49	36:18
  Average	12.1mph	11.0
  Max	21.0mph	17.0

  I would like to wait for my other MTB, which uses the same type of computer. I was "fresh" on the B, and I was a bit 'peeked' on the MTB, having just done a 9 mile "sprint". But, the impute controls should have negated "lack of energy". Still, since these results seem to counter my assumptions, (and I usually use the other MTB), I won't call the results definitive.
  Anyway, would anyone like to buy a used mountain bike?
• Richard Lighton, Jul 1999:
  Some rather less formal results: Arnold (my T5, 12% reduced gears) recently made me join the local touring bike club. They have various categories of rides, so I started with C (for average cyclists). Did a couple of nice pleasant rides (25 miles or thereabouts) and Arnold had no trouble at all keeping up. Given an upslope (nothing very long or very steep) I had to hold him back or (a couple of times) let him zoom uphill and then wait at the top.
  On Sunday (July 4th, US holiday, parades and such) the club organized a parade ride. Decorate your bike, wear red, white, and blue, and join this mass of bikes rolling through various towns in advance of or behind their parade. 25 miles with categories from A (the sort of people who do 100 miles in 5 hours) down to C* ("solid cyclists"). Again, a fairly easy route and not going at A pace, but Arnold was up with the lead group for 18 miles before the front tire went flat :-( Maybe he was fed up with having to carry a couple of small US flags sticking out of the springs of his Brooks saddle. (Come on Arnold, forgive me please for this lack of patriotic support).
  Yesterday (holiday observed) he went on another C ride. Well, there were only 7 turned up and someone was late and part of the group waited and three of us set off. We went substantially faster than C pace. Arnold and his 5 gears was only in trouble on upslopes where the speed fell just below 15 mph, and I had to drop a gear. The gap between 4th and 3rd is too wide--I can't pedal fast enough uphill to maintain 14mph in 3rd, so we would slowly fall behind and have to pedal a bit harder to catch up downhill or on the flat.
  All very unscientific in measuring the capabilities of a Brompton, and my legs are presumably in better condition than I expected, but it does show that a perfectly ordinary Brompton is a fine vehicle. I can't compare it to other bikes. I don't have any. Why would I want another? (Well, maybe a nice NS Moulton or one of Len Rubin's modified Bromptons or some half step gearing--but the last two would be Arnold upgrades anyway)
• Numerical details: Tips, tricks & tinkering - Hub gear efficiency
• Efficiency can be improved: Tips, tricks & tinkering - How can I go faster?

Speeding on a Brompton

• Bob Gelman, Oct 1998:
  Birdy has V-brakes which will effectively stop you (being near San Francisco's very big descents I can personally testify to that), not merely slow you down. This could save your life if, for example, a car suddenly pulled out of a driveway on your trip down the mountain. Moreover, the Birdy's suspension could be an advantage if the small wheels of a folder hit a "pothole" at that speed during your descent.
• Channell Wasson, Oct 1998:
  For me I won't let it out full speed unless I know the road is good all the way. You must know the road to your work well by now. I find the Brompton rock solid going down hill. I have rolled down the back side of Monitor Pass in the Sierras of California at over 50 mph and I felt very secure. On my full sized road bike I take such speeds in mortal fear of a front wheel shimmy starting up. The Brompton gave no sign of this and gave a very stable ride.

Touring on a Brompton?

• Andrew Henry:
  I have only ever carried luggage on my Brompton with the front pannier bag (Tips, tricks & tinkering - The Brompton cloth front pannier). Even when this is stuffed full with heavy shopping, it doesn't have a big effect on the handling. Carrying luggage on the rear of a Brompton might not affect the handling much either as it is pretty low down. It will however totally mess up the folding of the bike until you remove it !
  If you want a bike that you can ride for long distances whilst touring, then a proper touring bike might be better. I don't find my Brompton uncomfortable, but over long distances, being 30% slower can make the difference between getting home before or after dark.
• Channell Wasson:
  There are ample options for touring luggage on a Brompton once one breaks the rigid mesmeric concepts of conventional panniers
• Channell Wasson:
  I was in Mexico last week and rode 52 miles from airport in Baja to my house. The Brompton was the greatest for this road trip I used touring bar ends and had my suitcase on the rack. I had expanded the rack size with a light weight bbq grill bought at local hardware store. Great solution. Also used pannier. My load was ample and the bike handled it well.
• Phil Gough:
  I have never toured on a Brompton, there is no need as I also have a Moulton AM7 for that purpose, but a recent 13 mile fairly hilly ride on my 5-speed nine years old T5 left me with a noticeable sense of tired legs which the same ride on a big bike or the Moulton doesn't cause. I have a front mounted thermoplastic briefcase, which has big frontal area, but at low speeds unless there is a headwind this is not a problem. The lack of any front shock absorber when running on hard (75psi) Raleigh Record tyres is in my experience the greatest single factor in making the Brompton an unrealistic choice for loaded touring on anything but flat and smooth terrain. But I am over 50 and not as resilient as once was.
• Norman Tulloch:
  It is a brilliant design, folds quickly into a compact package (though not a very light one) and the front pannier is excellent.
  However, it is not particularly pleasant on roughish roads. I live in a country area where the roads, though good, are not always billiard-table smooth. The Brompton is fine on smooth surfaces: one can whir along quite happily and pleasantly, but as soon as one hits a less good surface, things change: the bike judders and stutters and rattles and generally becomes not much fun. My large-wheeled traditional touring bike flows over the same surfaces in a relaxed, smooth, quiet and soothing way. (One thing that does annoy me about the Brompton is its various rattles. Bikes should be QUIET.)
• Joerg Scheiner, Aug 1998:
  I don't know if you need to improve it. I mounted a pair of Biogrips to the handle bar to accomodate my hands position and installed a Brooks leather saddle from the mountain bike for more comfort. I use a T3 and didn't do a holiday on it but I took it with me on many trips and it carried all the luggage. In one case I did a weekend trip with the tent and sleeping bag and maitress on the rear rack and some cloths in the front bag (and the Alto =3D "Bratsche" in the backpack. I did 80 km on one day and felt comfortable with my three gears. I also could think of using a Rucksack for most of the luggage and fix it to the back rack and leave some heavy or important things for the front bag.
• Nico J. de Boer, Aug 1998:
  We came back last week from a tour in north England (York, Scarborough). Our 'improvements' consisted of a T5 with the same front bag, a nylon "weekend bag" of ca. 50 liters on the rear rack, and a small backpack for photo gear. In total, we had ca. 16kg of luggage per person. This was an adequate solution for us, though we had to walk up the steeper hills. I don't know whether the first gears of a T3 and a T5 are much different, but if you insist on cycling uphill, you should consider a seriously smaller gear.
• Rob Cope, Aug 1998:
  I find the biggest problem with a Brompton medium/ long distance is the difficulty varying cycling position. I can walk up steep hills, get more than enough luggage on the front block or in a Bike-Hod - but sore back, numb hands & bum is no fun. So I suggest;
  Find your favourite saddle & fit it; even if it is heavy and expensive. I've currently got a Vetta(?) with 2 gel layers & twin springs, but still suspect I'll end up with a wide Brooks. The Brompton throws all your weight on the saddle, so it has to be good?
  I have ended up with the Biogrips on by bars: horrible price (16-23GBP: cheaper in Germany) but near-indestructible and *no more numb hands*. Cyclecare keep em & IIRC Giant are also importing them. I'd like to fit the neat mini bar-ends Avon Valley Cycles do, but have yet to work out they could coexist with the Biogrips.
  Brakes: I am lucky enough to have the original Sachs fitted which work OK once long Koolstop pads were substituted. The Alhonga dual pivots look (from friends machines) to work well on the front but IMHO the backbolt & washers is not sufficient to take the greater braking force.
  Luggage: the Brompton positively thrives on front loads. Do a Henshaw: buy a big cheap waterproof holdall then fit a mounting bracket (Custom Folder sell one) for the front block. Details in the new A to B just out. Make sure the bag does not stick far beyond the front axle, else the whole thing may pivot round that axle & spontaneously fold (not when you're aboard, I hasten to add).
  Gears: yes, get the lower gears but I find a gentle push up steep hills much more pleasant than straining at the same speed awheel. You see so much more and the bike is still taking the load.
• Alan Bennett, Jul 1999:
  This last weekend my yellow L-5, the "Killer Bee" and I took part in the 7000 rider, 200 mile, annual Seattle to Portland ride. The two day event required riding 100 miles each day. I am happy to report the Brompton served me well and we rolled to the finish line late Sunday afternoon.
  Over the two days we averaged 12.8 mph. The course was somewhat hilly on the second day but there was the benefit of a tailwind the last thirty miles. Several roadies misidentified the bike as a Bike Friday. There were in fact, at least three Friday=92s on the ride, but as best I could determine a sole Brompton. A fellow rider on seeing the Bee folded on Saturday night referred to it as a "salad spinner."
  Modifications to my L-5 are limited to the front derailleur, and V brake on the front wheel. Both modifications came from Channell. The tires were Primos. I had minimal training for the ride, though I do routinely commute the 14 mile round-trip to work by bike.
  I sustained minimal bodily injury. Sunday evening I nursed a full size Brompton based blister on my buttocks. It is with the comfort of a pillow that I am able to type this message of accomplishment. I now believe it would have been wise to heed the discussions on alternate saddles.
• Jim McLaughlin, Nov 1999:
  I have done about 100 miles on my Brompton this week so far. Now that I have converted into a recumbent "Brecki" [Tips, tricks & tinkering - Brompton Recumbent Conversion Kit] I am losing interest in my full size bike entirely. I hope to try a couple 100 mile rides on the Brecki before the year is out.
  I do have wider gears than stock. I definitely recommend either the Mountain Drive or Channell's front derailleur [Tips, tricks & tinkering - Changing the Brompton's gearing set-up] if you plan to tow heavy loads or travel mountainous terrain. The 5 speed is good enough for commuting. I've pulled a trailer in the mountains with no trouble on camping trips.

All terrain Brompton?

• O'Reilly, Peter, Nov 1999:
  I just want to share my experience riding my L5 this past weekend as I was pleasantly surprised at how well the bike performed. On Saturday I participated on an organized groupd ride which covered the perimeter of NYC's Manhattan island. Before the ride, we were forewarned about riding on dirt roads, gravel, hopping onto sidewalks, etc. Hopefully someday, the city will completely develop a full scale, well groomed bike/pedestrian path around the island as it contains so much potential for leisure use.
  Anyway, the ride turned out to be a mini cyclcross expedition as the route was very disjointed. At many instances we would have to get off the bicycle and carry it over a guardrail, up a steep set of steps a sand/salt dune or some other obstacle. The people I rode with had mountian bikes or very robust hybrid bikes. It definitely was an advantage for me carrying the Brompton instead of one of the full sized bicycles. Definitely not very technical, but modestly challenging and varried was the terrain we rode on from NYC smooth to pot hole laden pavement, loose fine gravel, dirt paths, paths covered with foliage to cobble stone roads. I did not bother hopping any curbs as it was really not necessary nor would I want to do so with the B. (It's sharp handling and with ease manueverability makes it a trivial exercise when riding along deserted sidewalks to eventaully find the sidewalk ramp) That said, the bike handled remarkably well. I felt very secure while riding the B over such terrain. In particular, I was impressed at how much the rear suspension block dampened alot of road shock while riding over a stretch of cobble stone road.
  During the ride, I had witnessed some great river side sights and had attracted alot of attention (and possibly envy? from my fellow riders). While the group had stopped at one point to study a BMW being lifted out of the Hudson river - a Police department diver had came running over to ask me about the B. It also was a nice spectacle to fold up the bike and take it into the donut shop for our groups rest stop while the other bikes remained unsecurely parked outside.

Can you store a Brompton on a boat and not have it rust away?

• Jerry Kaidor, May 1999:
  The Brompton's frame is mild steel, first galvanized (covered with zinc) and then powder-coated over the galvanizing. That's about as rust-resistant as a steel finish gets. As long as you don't scratch the paint, the frame itself should be fine. Of course, there's also the accessories, brakes, shifters, spokes, etc which would rust at whatever rate is normal for those. As far as rust is concerned: The frame is mild steel. This is galvanized, and then powder-coated over the galvanizing. That's about as good as you get with steel. I don't know about the fittings, bolts etc though.
• Nico J. de Boer, May 1999:
  And don't be too optimistic about that rate in corrosive environments: my "dynamo rear rack stay" is very flecky indeed, the pump rusts inside, the wheel axis bolts tend to get corroded as well, and inside the chain guide wheel axes some rust may develop. The "folding axis" of the folding pedal doesn't look too shiny, the spokes tend to rust a little, and the saddle clamp bolt is a bit orange too. You can say I should polish those parts more often... Could it be that all this corrosion arises from the contact of different metals?
• Arnie G., Apr 1999:
  [ Could you put the whole bike in a plastic bag with a dehumidifier to prevent rust? ] I actually thought of that idea - not too sure how practical it is on a boat, but they sell packets of dehumidifying chemicals for small boat stuff - silica gel I think. It would have to be a hell of a good seal and I would have to refresh it often, but it's a possibility.
• JayG555, May 1999:
  I've found that spraying a fine coat of WD-40 oil on all bike surfaces and then wiping off excess is a good rust preventative and one that is used by friends of mine who carry bikes on board. Jay G.

Reasons not to buy a Brompton

• Tom Bennett, Aug 1999:
  Drawbacks of the Brompton: First, the weight. Although it doesn't seem heavy at first, try carrying the Brompton any distance, and you will realize that it is not a task done for amusement. The little wheels are pathetic for rolling any more than a few feet at a time. Interestingly enough, the wheels never smashed into my ankle bones after the first day or two of riding. I guess there's nothing like excruciating, agonizing pain to divert you from a bad habit. The brakes are pretty pathetic, but I got used to them, more or less. They slow you down, anyway. The one hassle is that you can't really feel totally free zooming down hills, because you know that you'll need about a mile to stop. I rationalize this by realizing that it is good training in case I ever decide to become a locomotive engineer.

As one might expect, most contributers on Brompton-Talk are using their Brompton, so they consider it at the very least useful. Really disappointed customers won't spend more time and money complaining on a mailing list that the manufacturer isn't even reading. Still here's a summary of problems that came up, in my personal order of importance:

• Broken handlebars: as on many bicycles, the handlebars are made of Aluminium to reduce weight. On oversized mountainbikes, Aluminium may last forever, but on the Brompton the 2mm thick tubing isn't up to rough daily use. For the gory details, read Tips, tricks & tinkering - Broken handlebars.
• Handlebar tuning: The peculiar Brompton steering column doesn't allow any adjustment. the handlebars fixed into this column can easily be exchanged for ordinary bicycle handlebars, but these would end up particularly low, unsuitable for the tall or anyone enjoying an upright riding position. On the other hand, some people find the standard handlebars to high. More in Tips, tricks & tinkering - Alternative handlebars.
• Brakes: some are disappointed by the standard brakes fitted until March 2000, particularly when it's wet (see Tips, tricks & tinkering - Stock brake effectiveness). More importantly, some ruin their rear rim after less than a year of daily use. Like the handlebars, this is a common problem in bicycles these days: hard brake blocks pick up grit and grind the soft aluminium (again!) rims away. For some year, the Brompton - as other bicycles - came with anodized rims (aluminium with a hard coating). But as soon as the brake blocks pick up parts of the anodizing, they grind the rest of the rim away faster than if the "protection" hadn't been there. On a Brompton the rims are only half as long as on big wheels, so the problem shows up earlier.
  However both problems can be resolved either by:
  • (very) regular cleaning of the brake blocks, as the manual faintly points prescribes
  • replacing the brake blocks with high quality, softer material (see Tips, tricks & tinkering - Alternative brake blocks)

Brompton service

• Peter Amey, Jul 1998:
  Quick update on the broken front frame tube I reported a couple of weeks back.
  Brompton have replaced the frame component under warranty including covering all transport costs to return the machine. Turn round time was 1 week. While they had it they have changed a few other things, such as a worn saddle, and replaced/serviced the rear pivot bearings. I was told this was "compensation for the inconvenience" of being without the machine for a week (I had forgotten just how cumbersome cumbersomes are!). Overall quite impressive service.
• David Cox, Jun 2000:
  Replacing the rear mudguard (fender) on my Brompton L3 has become something of a marathon. After six years hard use the guard cracked after a transatlantic flight, nearly a year later and after another trip it split and was held together for 3 months with duct tape but it finally gave up on the Waendel ride in Wellingborough.
  I'd ordered a new mudguard via my local dealer but it arrived 3 weeks later as a basic guard with no stays, I then ordered the stays which arrived after another 2 weeks. However, I couldn't fit it last night because all of the fittings are either ground down by constant folding or rusted in. I now need to order every specific bolt and plate it appears. When I buy Esge/SKS guards for my other bikes (infrequently they also last years) they come with the fittings and go straight on !
  No doubt Brompton are trying to save us money but six year old fittings cant be recycled; so if you need to replace your mudguard make sure that you order every last nut, plate, bolt and screw or like me you'll have half a C-type and a wet bum. Not ideal for commuting in June in UK.

Case Study by Andras Toth, March 1998

0. Introduction

1. How I bought it

1.1. Previous direct experience

1.2. A concrete need

1.3. A favorable deal

2. The features of the Brompton

2.1. Unfolded mode

2.2. Folding/Unfolding

2.3. Folded mode

In reply to some negative comments received concerning the publication of my study on this list, just two remarks:

• Obviously my intention is not to convince you about the utility of the Brompton. I just wanted to compare my experience with others'. I thought that everybody out there would be able to disregard the original intention of the study, but apparently it is too difficult for some.
• There is a nice button in most mailreaders called 'Trash' or 'Delete'. If you do not want to read the rest, it is up to you to press it. When I do it, I generally do not announce it to all the members of the list. If the message is too big and causes disturbance like in the case of the picture posted a few weeks ago, of course we have to discuss it, but I believe my study does not occupy enough space on your mail servers to cause major inconvenience.

3. Using the Brompton

3.1. Cycling strategy

3.2. Parking strategy

3.3. Public response

4. Comparison of the advantages of the Brompton and a normal city bicycle

• it does not get stolen since it is always with you
• it is easy to store it at home or at work (ideal for appartments in blocks of flats)
• as a cyclist: at any time you can switch from cycling to another mode of transport if the weather turns bad, you are tired or you do not feel well, you have a flat tyre, suddenly you have to go very far, the traffic becomes too dense etc.
• as a public transport user: you can reduce walking times (to the station etc.)
• it can be easily transported from one town to the other or on holidays by plane, by car or by train
• it helps raise public awareness of transport issues
• it is easy to navigate between cars in a traffic jam because the wheels are small

• less expensive
• since it is less expensive, you are not so worried about it and you can leave it in a bicycle rack when doing shopping or meeting friends who do not have a bicycle etc.
• people do not bother you with silly questions when you use it
• it may have more gears and may be more comfortable and faster (but not necessarily)
• you can carry a second person if necessary
• it is less sensitive to the unevenness of the road surface
• the rear wheel does not hang loose when you lift the bicycle
• it is easier and less expensive to maintain and repair (spare parts etc.)

5. A glimpse into the future

• special guarded or lockable storing places would have to be set up inside the public institutions
• public transport vehicles would have to be redesigned to accommodate both the passengers and their 'luggage'
• of course, the requests of the present-day urban cyclist associations would have to be fulfilled all the same (bicycle infrastucture and restrictions on car use).

Brompton compared to other brands

Brompton compared to Bike Friday

• Leonard Rubin:
  Okay. Having owned several bicycle shops, sold every imaginable model of folding bike, lived and ridden folding bikes in New York City, and finally undertaken the much-publicized Super-Brompton development project (Tips, tricks & tinkering - Leonard Rubin's UFB ("Ultimate Folding Bike" or "Super-Brompton") project), I'd like to take a crack at that question!
  1. The Brompton does indeed fold to a diminutive size, ("suitcase" would be more realistic than "briefcase", though) small enough to unobtrusively tuck under a table or stash in a cloak room. When in its instantly-deployed case (cover), it would not suggest a bicycle, except to someone with exceptional imagination (or who happens to own a Brompton).
  2. The bike Friday is quite slow, awkward and messy to fold completely, especially under pressure, and it is a cumbersome folded package to carry. It is best suited to situations where performance is of paramount importance, and quick-folding is of little importance. Long distance travel would be an example.
  New York City commuting represents just the opposite sort of application. The City is pretty flat, and what is most important is being able to quickly and neatly make the bike disappear, to enter bike-hostile buildings and board public transit smoothly throughout the day.
  I love the ride of the Brompton, but I would make a few equipment substitutions, including a quick-release on the handle-bar to allow quick adjustment between a bit more forward position for efficient riding and instant return to the upright position for folding. I also developed a superlight, micro-adjust seatpost that permits more variation in fore-aft positioning. A must-have is the front quick-disconnect rack/bag combination!
  After riding, selling, servicing and upgrading folders of every stripe for more than a decade, I developed my own high-performance design. After buying a Brompton (initially as a new curiosity to add to my collection), I became so enamoured of the design I stopped making mine, and turned all my attention to making high-performance modifications to the Brompton! I believe the stock bike is the most compact, civilized, well-designed and produced folding bike ever sold commercially, and I sell a variety of add-ons and upgrade kits to enhance its performance.
• Elaine Mari & Ming Dinh, Jan 1998:
  for those who know more about the differences than I do, I've seen the Bike Fridays discussed on the net as being better for performance and long distance applications than Bromptons. Is this due only to tyres and riding position? Because these can be changed on the Brompton. Has anyone seen first hand their new models, the ones that have a fold down stem to fold super fast? I gather the folded sizes are quite large compared to Bromptons.
• Steven D. Hanel, Jan 1998:
  I have a Bike Friday and a Brompton and they each have their place. Depends on how often or fast the fold needs to be. I have taken my Brompton on week trips where it gets hundred miles or so, gets folded alot when I take it into restaurants, cars, offices, hotels without the hassle of a lock. The Bike Friday does have a wider gear range and they do build them to your preferred dimensions. Bike Fridays also have a quick fold but it is no where near as fast OR SMALL as the Brompton. They don't have rear suspension and adding suspension stems and seatposts isn't quite the same as the Brompton suspension. I do ride the Brompton more. At least until I make the recumbent conversion for the Bike Friday or maybe the almost mythical Brompton conversion will be released first (my workload is fairly full).
• David Cox, Jan 1998:
  I run both a Brompton and a BF. BF is a better ride because of its 21 speeds, more rigid frame, superior wheels and V brakes. It really is nearly as fast for touring as my Mercian Classic (about 1 mph slower on a morning ride average).
  It will also fold into a hard case with effort.
  However, its quick fold format into the bag is pretty hopeless compared to the Brompton. It takes longer, is less positive and you are left with the handlebars floating around on the brake cables and needing to be just stuffed down between the wheels. The package is too big to fit behind the seats on British railways and takes up all the space and requires removal of parcel shelf in the boot/trunk of our hatchback Golf.
  I use the Brompton for commuting, trains to London, smuggling into meetings or as escape vehicle on family visits in the car. I am expecting the new BF to be better for touring Marin County at Easter or Tuscany in the summer.
• Mark Maier, Jan 1998:
  As Steve Hanel wrote, both bikes have their place. I also own both and think that the shortest way to express this is to say the Brompton is a "FOLDING bike" and the Friday is a "folding BIKE". This doesn't mean the part not written in capitals is the bad part of it, it just emphasises the features which each of the two is particularly good at. Some versions of the BF can even be called a folding RACE bike and there is a folding tandem, too.
• David Cox, Oct 1998:
  I enjoy riding the Brompton and a Friday but in different ways. On the Friday I can go faster and climb hills better. It has a more sporting riding position, it is more rigid, has more gears, better brakes. Mine is set up as a touring bike but can cope with some off road trails. I can keep up with Sunday club runs on it. Only a stripped down racing bike is faster and you can set up a Friday with narrow tyres and lighter components. It will also go into a standard suitcase. However, it is a pain to fold and in quick fold form takes up a lot of space and is awkward to carry.
  The Brompton has a character all of its own. It is fun to fold, goes anywhere, creates little offence and wins friends and influences people, its got a neat front carrier system - this is a reason alone to use it for shopping, commuting, going to meetings etc. Ideal for trains or smuggling in car boots, it will also fly in its soft bag with some pipe warmer padding. You can push along at highish speeds but my average speeds are slower on a Brompton L3 than on most of my other bikes - a heavy mountain bike done up for commuting is no faster. However, the bike goes where it is pedalled in a purposeful manner and this encourages a pottering, sightseeing style of riding, ideal for commuting, exploring cities or the countryside. I've done 30-40 mile rides with weekend luggage and some people have done 100 miles in a day. There is even someone who has claimed to have averaged 17 mph from Belfast to Dublin on a group ride on one. The ride is gentler than the Friday - or any other bike I've used and it is very easy to manoeuvre. The Brompton leads you into a different view of transport and another dimension of cycling - I use trains and get lifts more, dont worry about punctures - I can always get to appointments by taxi. It is that rarity a vehicle made in England by a British company - I've never wanted a Reliant Robin and VW have taken over Rolls.
• See also The first steps to folding wisdom - It's frail, isn't it?

Brompton compared to Birdy

• Leonard Rubin:
  The Birdy is a terrific-riding, fair-folding, cool and lightweight bike. The suspension is incredible. The riding position is pretty stretched-out, which is great for long torsos and performance-style riding, but objectionable to some shorter-torso'ed folk and the more casual rider. The folding can't hold a candle to the Brompton--it's larger, more awkward, not as neat a package and doesn't wheel when folded. It's quite light, though, and with some component upgrades can be made intoxicatingly light, as the aluminum frame is much lighter than the Brompton. The anti-dive front suspension is among the very best I've ridden! The seven-speed derailleur gearing is also lighter and more efficient than a Sturmey-Archer hub.
  Still, it won't accommodate a front derailleur and multiple chainrings, like my custom Brompton, as the frame geometry (and material) and folding design prohibit such modifications--an important consideration to S.F. riders like myself!
• Thorsten Rentel, Apr 1998:
  I had the opportunity to ride a Birdy. The whole concept is more aimed at people, that want a ride more comparable to a mtb (there's mtb tyres available and some people use their birdys off-road, even in races!) or city-bike and don't mind the slightly larger dimensions when folded. The full-suspension is adjustable (3 different elastomers) and provides a lot of comfort. The riding position is less upright, but there is another stem (height-adjustable and about 2,5 inch closer to the rider) available. It doesn't handle as easy as the Brompton when folded as it lacks the little wheels to roll along the folded package. Due to this and the larger dimensions it is probably less suited to the train commuter. Luggage capacity is smaller (two different optional racks, one suspended, the other not) and the mudguards (optional) are a little short and a bit on the flimsy side, but still functional. Other options include different bags and lightings. I don't know whether all the options and addons are available everywhere. The overall built quality is very good, apart from the already mentioned mudguards. There's 4 different models: red (7-gear alivio, 1890,-DM), green (inter7 with belt-drive and backpedal-brake, 2090,-DM), blue (21-gear Sachs 3x7, 2390,-DM) and elox (8-gear XT, 3190,-), Prices are Deutschmark, check the rates.
  Yes, prices are high. But if it suits your purpose it's a very attractive package.
  Visit the pages: http://www.burley.com/html/birdy_f.html and http://www.r-m.de/birdy/index.html (the German manufacturer's site, so no english text but nice pic's and all the options and prices)
• Dave Lyons, Jun 1998:
  If you are thinking about buying a folder, you must establish your priorities: convenient folding & folded size versus mechanical efficiency/distance to travel quality of specification and both of the above versus price limit.
  I have had a Brompton for about 2-3 years and ride around London regularly. I recently bought a Birdy at nearly twice the price for speed, comfort, distance but not for folding. I use my Birdy for longer journeys, where I can travel light and where some is on off road tracks and my Brompton for commuting, load carrying (one of its leading attributes!) and when I will need to fold/unfold alot (one day's commuting involves 12 folds or unfolds).
  My advice is: if the Brompton price is your limit -get it, if you can afford more and folding time/size is not your highest priority, then look at a Birdy or a Friday.
• David Edge, Aug 1998:
  The Birdy does ride better. You don't need to swerve in front of cars to avoid potholes. Slightly longer folded than Brompton, but a little lighter.
  Disadvantages: Twice as expensive (in the UK) Non-standard tyres (but can be rebuit with Brompton wheels) Maybe less durable - not recommended for people over 90kg
  I was 118kg, now 98 so still have Brompton. Suggest you get a suitcase or box the size of a folded Birdy, put 20kg in it and carry it around for a day or two on public transport! You'll know then.
• Bob Gelman, Aug 1998:
  For the information of those of you not in the US, the price of Brompton and Birdy here is almost the same (Birdy at REI after 10% dividend is $900), making the Birdy much more competitive in comparison shopping in the USA.
• Peter ?, Aug 1998:
  Price-wise in the states they're roughly slightly more expensive (the Burley models)
  +++ the Birdy front end is suspended; the rear end has three different replacable suspension cushions.
  --- there's no Birdy space for luggage. The Brompt has that great front pannier.
  +++ the Birdy has a quick-release gizmo for the handlebar stem. I hope Brompton can imitate, or improvise (get folding down to 8 secs)
  As a side thought, buying a brompton first may make it easier to trade up to a birdy, since the Brompton is in such high demand. Buying the Birdy and trading down (up) to a Brompton would mean unloading the Birdy wich may be marginally more difficult. I suspect you'd be less likely to wantr to sell the Brompton for a Birdy though. If you do get the Birdy and wish to trade up, I do live in the Bay Area.
• Thorsten Rentel, Aug 1998:
  At least in Europe there's two rack options for the birdy, one mounted on the rear swinarm (unsuspended, Brompton-style), the other mounted at the seatpost bolt (suspended, folds automatically and doesn,t enlarge the folded package). Both cost around 60 Dollar.
• Bob Gelman, Oct 1998:
  And why do I feel vulnerable without the Brompton - well, none of the others has that ease of folding which is so valuable if the need suddenly arises to rush off somewhere with the help of a train, perhaps
  Before I got my Birdy I studied the "foldability" of the 3 leading Bikes. I agree with you that Friday certainly has limitations in this department. However, I found very little difference in folding ease, speed, and utility between Brompton and Birdy.
  I'm sure any experienced Birdy folder can do the trick within a very few seconds of Brompton's. When we're talking about 15-20 seconds for the Birdy, I can't imagine that any difference in speed, if there is one, is particularly significant here anyway.
  While Brompton has wheels, Birdy is light enough to be carried more easily, and flops around less when lifted.
  Both are small enough to go most anywhere. A Birdy with folding pedal wouldn't be so much larger than Brompton to give it less utility for storage, etc. Where would Brompton have an advantage here (folded size)? Neither fits easily in the truck (boot)(a/k/a "rear glove compartment") of my Miata. Both easily fit in the front passenger seating area.
  Many, although this is subjective, would find Birdy to be a vastly superior ride over Brompton (including lower and better gearing); while this isn't particularly significant for very short, flat, commuter runs. I agree that the carrying basket for Brompton has advantages, if required.
  However, I think the main advantange for Brompton, in the UK at least, is price.

Brompton compared to Bike Friday and Birdy

• Mike Hessey, Oct 1998:
  The Brompton folds superbly, and is easy to carry, though not especially light. But the riding position is less than ideal for most people, myself included, in that it is very upright with the bars closer to the saddle than most people want. So its great for commuting where you need to fold and unfold 4 times a day, but on longer journeys it is less comfortable due to the riding position than some other bikes. You can ride it longer distances of course, but it's less enjoyable. I've ridden mine 65 miles in a day, and on the century ride I did with the Henshaws earlier this year David and Jane did 100 miles each on their Bromptons. I used my Friday, and Peter Henshaw was on a Birdy. Although I'm much older than them, I thin I was in better condition at the end of the ride than they were (apart from injuries suffered when I was clumsy enough to fall off), due entirely to having a bike with more gears and better suited to the length of the ride. Another excellent feature of the Brompton is the luggage carrying capacity.
  The Birdy gives a more comfortable riding position, and with front and rear suspension is more comfortable over longer distances. But it doesn't fold nearly as conveniently as a Brompton and is quite a bit bigger when folded, though a bit lighter than production Bromptons. It also has rather poor luggage carrying facilities by comparison with the Brompton, the unusual 18 inch tyres are not very good for either rolling resistance or life, and it tends to rattle and squeak, emphasised I think by the aluminium frame.
  The Friday is a relatively simple and conventional bike, which has no suspension but gives a very conventional and comfortable riding position, will take standard front and rear panniers (with the right carriers fitted) and uses the common 20 inch wheel format, for which some superb tyres are available. But folding is still less convenient than the Birdy, and even though it can be folded and covered in less than 1 minute with practice, the resultant package is very bulky. It does of course offer a more elaborate fold/separation option which enables it to be fitted into a special suitcase for air travel, which is convenient for some (Air ... models actually separate down to carry on luggage size for air travel, but this too is a slow process).
  To cover the subject properly would take a lot more space than I have used here - I have tried to be as brief as possible. You can find out more by studying the web pages, reading back issues of The Folder and A to B, talking to other owners etc. Different people prefer different folders, because they use them for different purposes. Do remember the fact that they are all design compromises, and there is therefore no single best folder which does every job best - you need to identify the one which suits your particular requirements most closely.
  And why do I feel vulnerable without the Brompton - well, none of the others has that ease of folding which is so valuable if the need suddenly arises to rush off somewhere with the help of a train, perhaps with a portable computer in the front bag, and with a minimum of fuss. It's been described as the equivalent of a Swiss Army Knife, and it is - it can do most things, though more specialised tools will often do individual jobs better.

Brompton compared to Dahon

• Steven D. Hanel, Oct 1997:
  Not sure which Dahon you have, but I too have both and haven't ridden the Dahon since I got the Brompton. (well, once for comparison) Can't bear to sell it though I have had it so many years...
• Peter Kennedy, Oct 1997:
  I too owned a Hon, though seven years ago. I now own a Brompton. The feel is quite different for the Brompton. The Brompton has the feel of a regular sized bike, and folds the easiest of any. But, you pay for what you get.
• Jerry Kaidor, Oct 1997:
  Just as a data point - I have a friend who has three Dahons. I let him try out my Brompton. Now he really, REALLY wants one.
• alex mumzhiu, Dec 1999:
  Dahon is a strange company. Year after year they systematically eliminate good features of their bikes and introduce bad ones. On the frame of the bike they put the warning "Not intended for curb jumping or other hard usage". Contrary to this warning the bike is surprisingly sturdy. However they changed the design of the lock which holds the handlebar after it is unfolded, from a good design to a bad one. In my last three trips this lock was broken, and my wife had to send me a new one across the globe. The distance between the handle bar and the seat is too short. It is impossible to keep proper positioning for biking. Fortunately I saved a curved seat post from a very early model, which increases this distance and allows to maintain proper biking positioning. A good feature of Dahon is its tires. They are wider then Brompton's and as a result of this they works better as a shock absorbers. These tires are the only design feature which I miss. Also they are the same size as children's bike tires and are available everywhere. These children bike tires make the bike funny looking which attracts a lot of attention, so when my wife or daughter ride Dahon they always came back with lots of interesting propositions. However Dahon is moving toward 20 inch tires and the newer Dahon bikes are all 20inch models.

Brompton compared to Strida

• Andras / Barnabas Toth, Apr 1998:
  The Strida I had the occasion to try did not have any gears. The chain of the bicycle was made of rubber, and everything else seemed to be made of plastic. However, this did not significantly reduce its weight compared to the Brompton: according to its owner, it weighs 10 kg. The wheels were a little smaller than the Brompton's. The overall riding sensation was very unstable and quite inefficient. The whole frame was balancing from left to right as I was pedalling. However, I did not have trouble with my legs at all, there was enough space. When I sat on it, I had the impression of riding one of those ancient bikes with the giant front wheels, because contrarily to the Brompton, the frame protrudes up from the seat to the level of the handlebar. The folding is done in a single movement but is limited to the length of the bicycle: there is not any reduction in the height. The folded bike can be pushed on one wheel and gives the impression of a hand-held mine-detector. As for the price, the owner said he had bought it in England for the equivalent of 2800 French franks (approximately 470 USD, check the current exchange rates), but I am not quite sure I remember well, so do not rely on this information. This is all I can say because I did not ask for the owner's address and chances are that we will never again see each other. If there is an advice I can give you, you should be happy you have a Brompton and forget about Strida.

Brompton compared to itself (in younger days)

• Custfold, Dec 1998:
  Some design details on the old Brompton which are notable by change
  1) The sharp kink in the main frame
  2) The 1" headset
  3) The clamp & split in front of seat tube, which proved a serious stress point, with heavy riders (ie JG and DH and porbably if he'd had one RC/DE) and often fractures - but can be re-brazed.
  4) The rigid frame carrier and lighter pivot connection on rear traingle - one enhances strength, the other is a weakness, which like 2) carried over to early machines on the new production run, before the upgrade to 1.25" headseat, and reduced stress raiser rear pivot arrangement.
• Rob Cope, Apr 1999:
  Comparing '99 & '82 Bromptons, the later one will be noticeably lighter, both from frame improvements & more use of alloy (espec the rims). The forks are better formed & of chrome-moly, not high tensile steel. The rear triangle uses fatter stronger tubes & has a couple more braces eg between the stalks mounting the front pulley-wheels. The rear carrier (if fitted) is alloy.
  The brakes may be inferior, with Saccons replacing the discontinued CLB callipers. I presume you have steel wheels (& front hub). The chain tensioner is functionally the same, rather better moulded (though you may have a really early model with handmade tensioner).
  Check the handlebars. The polished alloy ones with a shim in the stem tend to break along the edges of that shim. Newer bars (with a built in oversize centre) seem stronger, though not wholly unbreakable.
  The 3-speed hasn't changed much, though you probably have an oil-lubed model with proper seals & an oil filler. Current 3-speeds are greased to save fitting the seals, which works fine till the grease evaporates & you have to dismantle to regrease (or inject oil down the hollow axle).
  Methinks someone should be getting together a Brompton museum: the factory was operating on a hand to mouth basis so the production prototypes got sold.

Which model is meant for me?

C or L or T model

The main issue is the carrier. If you insist, you can add a carrier yourself (see Tips, tricks & tinkering - Adding a rear carrier to an L-model). Adding a front light and wiring yourself is easy, so they don't matter much.

How usefull is the carrier?

• David Hansen, Apr 1998:
  I find the rack on the T type very useful for less arduous excursions. My toolkit and spare tyre fit into a pack under the seat. Then my coat can be rolled up and put on the rack. There is then no need for a pannier. Without the front pannier I am not tempted to take useless things along for the ride. The rack is also useful for carrying things when one runs out of space in the front luggage.
  Against this is the extra weight when carrying the bike and when cycling.
• David Hansen, Sep 1999:
  Very useful for some things, little use for others.
  It is good for carrying a folded up coat, letters and other post, a box of A4 paper (the pegs under the rack allow the bungees to be placed so the box doesn't hit one's feet), suitably sized bags, tents, slide projectors, medium rucksacs (rest on it and are also fastened to the saddle) and anything else than can be put on it.
  It is little use for fitting most bicycle panniers as it is too small, although small panniers have been fitted right back and Custom Folder supplies some good small ones for it.

3 or 5 gears

• lighter (200g ?)
• more robust, as confirmed by expert Dave Holladay (Tips, tricks & tinkering - Dave Holladay). Details: Tips, tricks & tinkering - Hub gear breakdowns.
• reported to be more efficient, some (few!) people even claim that 1st gear on a 3 speed is easier than 1st gear on a 5 speed, despite the 5 speed's lower gearing ratio
• about £80 cheaper
• easier to adjust (requiring less accuracy)
• equipped with a simpler, cheaper, smaller gear controller
• free of the pertruding 5 speed's Gearing Roller Assembly

• have finer (although varying) gaps between gears (still course compared to derailleur gears)
• have a wider range (3 speed: 9/4, 5 speed: 16/9)
• cannot freewheel while misadjusted or incorrectly engaged (thanks to the Sprinter design)

{Keith J Russell} [...] should we fork out the extra UKP 80 for the T5 or stick with the simpler, and perhaps more robust, T3? [...] We'll be using it for light commuting, trips to the shops, train journeys etc. Definitely won't be touring on it (yes - I kow some hardy folks do) but we'll stick with the tandem for that type of cycling. I can't imagine we'll cover more than ten miles at maximum.

• Tips, tricks & tinkering - Changing the Brompton's gearing set-up
• David Evans:
  It very much depends how hilly it is! I recall that East Lothian, like Wales, is quite hilly. I would definitely go for a T5 as I have done. The higher gears are also great for zipping along the flat. The additional ?80 is well worth it.
• Phil Gough:
  Go for the T3. I use my T5 for the sort of riding you describe,always carrying a case on the front and rarely use the lowest gear, although the high top is great for a burst of downhill speed occasionally. [...] Unless of course East Lothian is a very hilly part of Scotland!
• Anthony "you can't have too many gears" Cartmell:
  I'd recommend the T5. IMHO the extra choice of gears is well worth the extra money. The current Sturmey-Archer five speed gears are probably as robust as the three speeds (but are slightly heavier?). Even for short journeys it's amazing how often you meet strong winds and steep hills, and who knows where your Bromptons will take you in the future...
• Andrew Henry:
  I was faced with the same decision. Both hubs weigh the same. The gear change with the 3 speed is a bit slower - you have to consciously stop pedalling before the change is made. With the 5 speed, you can just ease off a little.
  The downsides with the five speed are that it is newer, so the long term reliability isn't as well proven as with the 3 speed.
• Stein Somers:
  I used to be suspicous about the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub (SA3), because of the problems I had with it. (I didn't use it properly though). The main problem was the failure mode: the SA3 would drop in between gears when you were pushing hard on the peddles, so there was nothing stopping you anymore, except certain body parts hitting hard metal.
  So I was even more worried about the SA5. I did purchase a T5 (recently, with a single cable). It got misadjusted in the beginning (the locker nut was not tightened), but didn't fall in between gears, it just doubted between gears. I immediately corrected it and it's still fine after 1500 km. So, regardless of the number of gears, I definitely prefer the SA5. It switches between gears more easily as well.
  I also know of one major drawback of the SA5: I slipped and fell on the first ice of this winter, and the SA5 gear controller broke. It is plastic (junk), whereas my old SA3 used to have a decent metal controller. And I had to pay (the equivalent of) 14 pound sterling for a replacement!
• Peter Amey:
  The current T5s have only one cable for the Sturmey Archer and it is no more difficult to remove than the 3-speed (it does require a bit more accuracy when adjusting).
• Malcolm Lyon:
  The latest [5-speed] Sturmey hub is called 'The Sprinter' and is controlled by a single cable. A feature of this is that it has no 'slipping position' - the gears are continuously in 'drive' whilst changing up or down.
• Phil Gough:
  my T5 is an elderly model fitted with the old twin cable SA-5/2 hub - which, incidentally, despite being maligned by some is still perfectly satisfactory after 8 years and nearly 10,000 miles of use. But in truth, it got a lot better when one of the later rear fork assemblies was fitted, as this allowed much better alignment of the cables and less friction in use.
• Meryl Prestidge:
  why does the Folder keep saying the gears on a T5 are not adequate in hilly regions? I'm in Plymouth, UK and my T5 with 18% gear reduction seems fine so far. 21 might be better, but 5 do the job.
• Carl Etnier:
  [...] the guy at the shop warned me not to get a T5. If the hub fails, he said, you're shpxrq.
• Peter Amey:
  I don't think the 5-speed Sprinter (single cable) hubs are inherently more of a problem than 3-speeds and they are just as easy to service.
  Having said that I have just found mine to be very (very) badly worn internally after rather less service than I think it ought to have given. I sent a FAX to Sturmey Archer this morning saying that the wear was too high and they called about an hour ago to offer me a free replacement set of internal parts; pretty good service I would say.
  My only regret about the more recent hub gears is the lack of an oil port. I know the greased-and-sealed-for-life arguments well but remain convinced that a regular weekly flooding with oil is a better solution for hub gear longevity.
• Leonard Rubin:
  Many years ago I used to own bicycle shops in New England, and used to specialize in all things Sturmey Archer. The five speed hubs were always much more fussy than the good ol' AW (venerable three speed model). They have much shorter indicator chain (that's the proper name for the little chain that pulls the rod that moves the gears inside the hub) travel between gears, and it's hard enough to hold the adjustment on a non-folding bike! Alignment is indeed critical, as the use of a good quality cable, housing, lever and lubricant throughout the system. There used to be a few different lengths of indicator rods (the bit inside the hub that is attached to the indicator chain, sometimes I found a manufacturer used the wrong length rod for a particular axle/nuts configuration, though I am not suggesting that is the case here.
• Simon Shearn:
  I've got a T3 (three-speed without any gear reduction) and find that climbing gradients steeper than 10% is difficult - the Brompton isn't the sort of bike where you can come out of the saddle when the going gets steep. If you're planning to do hills frequently you might want to consider a 5-speed or one of Brompton's gear-reduction options.
• David Henshaw, Mar 98:
  My 3-speed regularly undertakes journeys of 30 miles or so, and we've ridden 60-70 without ill effects. This is in moderately hilly country too. The secret is in the choice of gear ratios - they are spot on. So my advice would be - go for the little bike with minimal gears and a big heart. But make sure to fit a decent saddle and Primo high-pressure tyres.
• Custfold, Apr 1998:
  For proven reliability use the 3-speed which in AW form has remained virtually unchanged in design for over 60 years - and some 60 year old versions are still going strong.
  The 5 speed has more bits = more bits to go wrong
  There have been several 2 cable versions - the SA5 and 5-star spring to mind as both have been on the Brompton, then we got the 1 cable Sprinter with the C**p plastic changer which wears out - and the rather fine adjustmant of the cable to make the 2 stage sliding dog work.
  As the 5 speed has this larger sliding dog bit there is a bigger slot in the axle -making it weaker - and I've bust several 5 speeds against only 1 AW which was when I was 14 and through crass incompetence rather than loading.
• Tom Bennett, Aug 1999:
  I'm glad I bought the 5 gear model. In cycling around France this summer, I used all five gears regularly. I never biked at night in the country, so I had no need for the T model. Also, the Pannier system worked perfectly well, so I never needed a rack for the rear wheel. Therefore, I recommend buying an L5 with the Pannier system.
• Peter O'Reilly, Oct 1999:
  I live in Manhattan as well and have an L5 with no gear reduction.
  I opted for the 5 speed due to the obvious reason of a greater variety of gears, but I think the 3 speed is more than adequate for Manhattan. For longer excursions, you may find the extra gears to be of great benefit.
  As for no gear reduction, I opted for that since my body is accustomed to riding a bicycle. Channell persuaded me to not go for reduced gearing - which was on the mark indeed. Although, I did hedge my bets and purchased a rear sprocket for something like $5. (It's still in the wrapper and not likely to be used at this point).
  With all that said, I rarely use the 4th gear. Out of pure curiousity I tried out the 5th gear once on my Brompton. At the speed 4th or 5th gear dictates (20+ mph?), I'd personally prefer to coast down a hill given the design and intedend use of the Brompton coupled with urban road conditions and traffic. To that end perhaps reduced gearing would be of benefit - allowing a greater range of gearing for gears that will be *frequently* used.
• Stein Somers, Oct 1999:
  In '96 I opted for the 5 speed and never regretted it. I reject the statement that 3 gears is enough for Manhattan. I've never been anywhere near to it, but I remember it being close to sea, so even if it is flat as a dime the wind will compensate for that. Also recent activities, be they labourous or social events, can greatly influence the gear chosen. Anyway, I'd rather use the 5 speed's 3 middle gears than the 3 speed's widely spaced gearing. I think you limit your Brompton to a 3 speed only if you have a particular reason to: being exceptionally strong, lacking in cash, plannig to transport the Brompton more than ride...
• David Cox, Oct 1999:
  I reckon that the cheapest L3 is fine for Manhattan, I had a good 3 days riding around the island Memorial weekend and never felt the need for more or lower gears. The 3 speed is still in my humble opinion Sturmey's best ever product - reliable and easy to adjust.
• Julie Kosicki, Oct 1999:
  I agree with [3 gears], unless you happen to carry heavy-ish loads (e.g camping gear) and / or tend towards knee ache. I carry a lot of paper files and overnight gear on mine and now and again (age rather than riding position) get the odd bit of knee pain. So I find the extra two gears and lower gearing very handy, even on the relatively gentle slopes of much of London, but most definitely in the hilly district where I live. If you're travelling around the country on your Brompton or abroad, the extra gears would certainly be a good investement : You're bound to meet a challenging hill sooner or later.
• Reuben Winitch, Oct 1999:
  I used to have the L5 and now I have an L3. I was much happier with the extra gears. Neither were reduced.
• Jim McLaughlin, Oct 1999:
  I have the 50/14, although I will probably switch back to the 13 tooth. When I was in the mountains with a 50 pound trailer and the temperature was over 100 degrees F, I put a 36 tooth in front. That was low enough to prevent heat stroke. The lowest gear was about 11 inches with the 36 tooth, low enough to spin out at 2 or 3 miles per hour. After about 40 miles of riding in the mountain heat I was surprised that I felt a lower gear yet would be useful on those 3 mile long ascents.
• More numbers in Tips, tricks & tinkering - Hub gear efficiency

Reduced gearing

{Clive Page, Apr 2000} Just in case anyone else is still as confused as I was about the gear options on the new Bromptons, I have here a leaflet from the Brompton Bicycle Ltd dated March 2000 which sets it out in terms I can understand (i.e. inches):

L3 & T3		47"	63"	84"		50 teeth x 13 teeth
L5 & T5	37"	44"	56"	70"	84"	44 teeth x 13 teeth
C3		44"	58"	78"		46 teeth x 13 teeth

Options are:

3-speed models	12% lower or 18% lower.
5-speed models	14% higher or 7% lower.

• David Henshaw:
  For all it's worth, if you are buying a 5-speed Brompton, we would certainly recommend the full 18% reduction. We have ridden our 3-speed machines in San Francisco without any reduction, so we know what the hills are like, and would probably prefer lower gears if we cycled in S F every day.
• Andew Mackay:
  I have tried the 0%, 12% and 18% reductions and from the description of what the type of riding to be attempted I would strongly suggest a 12 % reduction. Since the bike is not to be used for touring and the down-hill speed is not of the essence, the most benefit of the gearing can be obtained from a lower ratio to allow pedalling up the steepish San Francisco hills.
• Phil Gough:
  The human legs are a pretty good and flexible gear system. After about a month you won't need those lowered gears and will able to use the high ones to whizz down those hills.
• David Edge, Sep 1998:
  [How is the 18% reduced gearing achieved] 44T chainwheel vice 50T and 14T sprocket vice 13T.
• John Newgas, Nov 1998:
  I live near the top of Highgate Hill in North London - the highest point in London. I found that the 12.5 % reduction was pretty successful in making the hill manageable with a Three Speed Brompton.
  
  The hill however is so long that my stamina runs out at the end of a days work, and I sometimes walk the last part. Having borrowed a multi- speed non-folder I realise that the gearing doesn't actually make the hill go away - the problem is me and my general condition.
• Tom Bennett, Aug 1999:
  I recommend the 12 % gear reduction. With the original gearing, I spent most of my time in gears 1,2, and 3, and no time in 4 or 5. With 12% reduction, I found myself using all the gears. It seems to be an axiom that easier gears are a necessity, whereas harder ones are a luxury. I don't find myself zooming downhill, craving more speed nearly as often as I find myself puffing uphill, desirous of less stress. My elfish wife has the 18% reduction, which she finds excellent, but is slightly too easy for me. I am 6 feet tall and very athletic. Nevertheless, I found myself using first gear quite often. My observation is that European cyclists tend to spend more time in harder gear, where Americans prefer to keep those legs spinning fast.
• Nico J. de Boer, Aug 1999:
  [...] the reduced gearing (42 teeth front, 14 teeth back) only gives you one low gear extra (as compared to the original 50-13 T5), and this is completely inadequate for unathletic people like us to be able to cycle uphill with luggage (2.5kg front, 14kg back). On hills steeper than 15% we had to push instead of cycle. Maybe for the really strong a 42-14 T5 is all they need, but for us there is no alternative but to start saving for a Swiss Mountain Drive. (Any Bromptoneers having experience with luggage and a Mountain Drive?)
• Jim McLaughlin, Aug 1999:
  I pulled a 50 pound trailer through the Appalacians this summer in 100+ degree F heat. In addition to the mountain drive, I dropped the front chainring to 36 tooth (I think it is 14 in back still). My target was to keep my heart rate below 135 and I just barely did so in the heat. If I recall, that range was about 10.5 to 64 gear inches. Now that I have the 50 tooth back on the front, I think it is around 15 to 89 gear inches.
• De Clarke, Aug 1999:
  What Channell told me, untechnically, was that if you bike anywhere that is not absolutely flat, you want the 18 percent reduction.
  Having ridden the bike with 18% reduction I agree with him :-)
• Chris Newport, Sep 1999:
  Despite the availability of 12% and 18% reductions and people saying they 'never use 5th gear' etc. etc. I personally spend > 90% of my time in 5th (commuting between Kew and the City of London daily - pretty flat except for Holland Park Avenue), < 5% in 1st, my legs generate more torque than power and I generally often find myself wanting a 6th gear.
• Stein Somers, Oct 1999:
  I'm down from the standard 50/13 set-up to 50/14 and still slightly long for a smaller chainring. I favour a 14 tooth sprocket because it's better a keeping the chain from jumping off (probably also at keeping you from putting it back should it happen anyway), wears slower, and should be more efficient. However I understand only the 18% reduction includes this 14 tooth sprocket and 18% seems a bit too slow to me. 12% reduction is 44/13 and 18% reduction is 44/14. At least in Europe, 46 teeth fixed chainring are very common, but they don't (all) fit on a Brompton, so it's not easy to change the chainring. The sprockets are hard to find anyway, whether 13 or 14 tooth.
• Giles Robinson, Oct 1999:
  Gosh, I'm tempted to say "beware high gear evangelists", but I'm sure the intention is good. I have a 12% reduced T5 and use : 2nd, 3rd, 4th more or less equally; 1st quite often, going up steepish hills it is certainly easier than 2nd; 5th almost never. I almost regret not getting the 18%, but the 12% 5th does have its uses. We do have hills in Manchester/Stockport (UK), but it's mostly pretty flat.
  When buying, I compared potential Brompton gear ratios to those I use most often on my other bikes -- do this if possible. If (like me) you prefer to twiddle than push, the Brompton default setting will look too high.
  Some people just seem to be able to go fast, I wish I were one of them. A Brompton occasionally used to pass me on the way home from work, & I couldn't catch it (on my touring bike). I have two T5, both bought with standard transmission. Main advantage is that 3rd gear, where the hubs internal efficiency is best, reaches high enough for most cruising. Various Experts recommend pedalling about 90 rpm, which is above 27 km/h In 3rd gear. 4th and 5th gear are left for going downhill or with favourable winds. I changed the rear sprocket on both bikes to 14 teeth, giving 8% reduction. This requires an extra pair of links in the chain, giving 100 links. That is twice as much as the teeth on the chainring and, in theory, causes additional wear of the chain. Even with that transmission I had not much use for 5th gear. Some weeks ago I converted to 18% reduction by changing the chainring to 44 teeth (no, it was not worn:) . I am perfectly happy with it. I find the standard transmission suitable in summer on a lonely cycle-path with favourable winds and 120 Psi in the Primo tires, but riding in city traffic with dynamo, rain jacket and facing winds I feel I cannot save 2 of 5 gears for rare occasions. Best advice is to compare the transmissions availiable by Brompton to that You favour on Your current bike. Even if that leads to false conclusions, conversion is simple.
• R. Maynard, Oct 1999:
  I'd endorse this. I've had an L5 with 18% gear reduction for about 2 months. Around Dublin (mostly flat) I rarely felt the need for a higher gear. Here in Seattle (hilly) I often use the lowest gear.
• Jim McLaughlin, Oct 1999:
  The thought of using 5th gear 90% of the time makes my knees hurt. But I'm not young and can't maintain 20 mph for more than a few miles. And I'm determined to never see a knee surgeon.
  I wonder if it is understood that 1st and 5th are the same gears running backwards and forwards so to speak. So the efficiency is similar. There are technical drawings at sturmey-archer.com
  In my humble opinion, you can never have enough gears unless you never go anywhere or carry any loads or hit any winds or hills. If you do none of those things, you must not have a bike. Someday we'll have ergonomic front wheel drive folding recumbents with light, efficient transmissions spanning a ten to one range with steps of 8%. That would be at least 30 gears with no overlap. Meanwhile, get as many as you can afford. It's much more important than, say, a fast computer.
  But please, folks, try to keep your pedaling cadence up to 80 rpm or at least 70 rpm most of the time. It will keep you riding for many more years than grinding away in a too high gear. You'll get used to it, albeit slowly.
• Matt Hayworth, April 2000:
  At first I thought I had made a mistake in getting the T5 and 18% reduced gearing (since I felt like I wanted a higher gear) but when I hit one murderous little hill, I could see why someone might want a greater range at the bottom end.

Do I need a longer or telescopic seat post?

• Bruce Boysen:
  With the seatpost fully extended my seat is still a good half inch too low. I know I can get a longer post, but I'm hoping a new seat would get me enough height. My question is, will I be able to get at least a half inch by changing seats & if so, what seat (I'd prefer a good leather seat...Brooks?) will give me the most additional height?
• Bob Warwick:
  I am 5 foot 11 inches and found that the seat post was too short - I ended up buying the extended tube which is fine for length, although I expect if you are much over 6 foot you may need it longer still.
• Bruce Boysen:
  Yesterday I put a Brooks Conquest seat on the brompton & it gives me enough leg extension with the standard post. I'm 6' tall. It adds alot of height & the springs on the saddle make for a very plush ride, its the most comfortable saddle I've owned. An added advantage is it also looks great.

Where can I find out more?

Paper Magazines

A to B

Velo Vision

The Folding Society

Brompton-Talk

Brompton links

• Where it all (Brompton-Talk and the motivation for this web-site) started: the early US distributor, Channell Wasson's http://www.foldabikes.com
• Official manufacturer's site: http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk
• http://www.uwereimann.de/brompton/index_e.html (nice interactive presentation of folding)
• http://www.bromptonauten.de/ (great, but don't mention the war) (sorry, couldn't resist)
• http://www.pbase.com/john28july/bromie_folders and http://www.pbase.com/john28july/brommies_mine
• http://www.x64.com/b/ (Joaquim Carvalho's modifications)
• http://www.paul.sladen.org/brompton/brompton-pictures/
• http://www.bignoseduglyguy.com/bnugwiki/BikesBromptons
• http://www.ipcress.net/images/html/brom/brom.html (SON XS and large lamp mounted on the handle bars)
• http://www.ihpva.org/bm92/Brompton/index.htm (old)

Folding bicycle links

• Check out Steven Scharf's impressive colourful folder catalog.

General bicycle links

• Harris Cyclery Home Page with lots of technical articles
• Edinburgh Bicycle: Frequently Asked Questions
• John Allen's Home Office Home Page lists some quite to-the-point articles.
• Andrew Henry, Oct 1998:
  http://cyberider.us.net/bikes/ is a good tool for searching the Internet for cycling information.
• Andrew Henry's Bicycle lights FAQ is no longer with us in the virtual world?

Brompton shops

USA & world

UK

• Tips, tricks & tinkering - Dave Holladay
• John Blackburn, Jan 1998:
  If you want a Brompton in a hurry, a good place to try is the Mountain Bike and Ski Company (0171 834 8933), near Victoria Railway Station in London.
  They have a secret supply of Bromptons in the basement. The shop is owned by a gentleman (it's the only description that fits him).
• John Blackburn, Feb 1998:
  All the new parts were obtained from the SIDCUP CYCLE CENTRE, which is near the rail station in Sidcup, a small town in Kent. This excellent shop is well stocked, has knowledgeable staff, and enthusiastic mechanics who know how to use tools properly.
  If you have a bike problem, go to Sidcup Cycle Centre! If you have a SERIOUS bike problem, go to Sidcup Cycle Centre and ask for Pip Hill!
• Custfold, Aug 2000:
  Phoenix Cycles Battersea (Mike Hullis, info@phoenix-folders.demon.co.uk ) and Cyclecare Olympia (Tim Whitty, Olympia & Earls Court: 0171 602 9757) both have demonstration/hire bikes.
  IIRC Tim is more likely to hire out for longer periods
• richard.pearson, Apr 1999:
  When I was looking for my Brompton, I spoke to Avon Valley Cyclery [http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk] who would then hire you one of their demonstration Bromptons, or Birdys if you wished a longer trial.
• Ben Cooper, March 2000:
  Hi, thought you might like to know that the definitive info on the new Brompton range is now up on our website - that's three days before it's officially launched!
  Kinetics - http://www.kinetics.org.uk
  15 Rannoch Drive, Bearsden
  Glasgow G61 2JW, UK
  tel/fax: +44 (0)141 942 2552
• Rob Williamson, Mar 2000:
  We are pleased to announce a world first with pictures of some of the new Brompton bikes & bits on our Web site.These were taken at the Birmingham show earlier this week.
  Check out this link: http://www.everythingbrompton.co.uk
  Biketrax
• Bill Laine, Aug 2000:
  Wallingford Bicycle Parts
  bromptondepartment@wallbike.com
  http://www.wallbike.com

Japan

• Yoshinori MIZUMOTO:
  In Japan, the Brompton is distributed as the name "Brompton" or "Lotus". They are made in Taiwan. I have a Taiwanese "Brompton" (The first steps to folding wisdom - If you're close to the Far East) in red. The model we can get in Japan is L3 only. The retail price is 65,000 YEN.
  In Japan, I can get the British Brompton by mail order only from US. I want an original British one! but too expensive!

• Channell Wasson (US distributor) has exported (trans-ported?) real Bromptons to Japan:

  I received Brompton from Federal Express this morning. And I commuted by Brompton today. Now, Brompton are put under my desk of office. I can put my rucksack in pannier because front pannier is very big. Very good. Excellent!!.

  I think it was good thing that I buy a Brompton from your shop. I am very satisfied.

• David Hansen, Jan 1998:
  [in reply to Tada Tosio] Scotland no Edinburgh kara
  Konnichi wa, hajime mashite, watashi wa David Hansen desu. Watashi mo nihongo dekinai desu keredomo, tomodachi ga sukosshi dekiru. Nihon ni wa, hotondo onagi jitensha wo kau koto dekiru, sore kara nihon no folding jitensya kyookai mo aru. Kyookai no kaiin no naka ni, Jun Kataoka imasu. Renraku sitai toki wa, email de dekimasu:- ikd21@wind.co.jp, denwa bangou ha 027 322 9399 desu.
  Doozo yoroshiku onegai shimasu.
  Channell Wasson, Jan 1998:
  Dear Tosio, Please talk to Jun Katoka. He is Japonese and lives in Japan. His E-mail is ikd21@wind.co.jp His FAX is +81-273-22-9399 He has bought Bromptons from me and he can help tell you how to buy from my company. Thank you. Arigato go zima tash ee mashta. Best wishes,
• Peter O'Reilly, Oct 1999:
  I just returned from Tokyo whereby I noticed a bike shop selling Bromptons that had a decal of the UK flag prominently displayed across the top tube. I believe these Bromptons are not of the Taiwainese type since the decal also stated such was made in England. It looked pretty spiffy, indeed (like the British Racing Green color model).
• alex mumzhiu, Oct 1999:
  I bought 3-speed red Brompton in Tokyo a month ago. It also has the UK flag prominently displayed across the top tube, but the decal stated: "made in Taiwan".
• Koichi Yoshino, Nov 1999:
  I have a big news about the Brompton in Japan. Mizutani Bicycle (http://www.mizutanibike.co.jp) the Japanese dealer of Brompton will start to deal in the UK Brompton T5. It'll be 128000 yen. And they'll start to sell the Taiwanese Brompton T5 for 67500 yen. It's wonderful. I found this news in a Japanese website (http://www.cup.com/onohiroki/community.html).

Denmark

• pedalkraft Thorsten Rentel Rentemestervej 23, 2400 København tel: +45 24 20 80 74 email: thorsten@pedalkraft.dk

The Netherlands

• Ruud H.G. van Tol, Apr 1998:
  In Amsterdam:

  Tromm Tweewielers Europaplein 45 (near RAI)

• s.p.kleinbog, Apr 1998:
  [...] Kok, in the Nachtegaalstraat, it's a great shop with a great range cycling goodies. There's a store in Hilversum too that carries Brompton, they're called Antilope. They have a site at http://www.antilope.nl/ that tells you where the're at. I got my Brompton there 4 years back. Up to now they've not let me down on the service, etc. Neither has the bike, by the way.
• The Antilope Team, Apr 1999:
  We would like to announce that Antilope in Hilversum (the Netherlands) now also sells Brompton Bikes on-line; at http://www.antilope.nl we made an internet store where you can buy the bike and all the accessoires you like for the Brompton. We only deliver in the Netherlands.

Belgium

• Thorsten Rentel, Jan 1999:
  we stock rims and spokes now, among other spares. If required, mail order is an option, too. Should anyone (especially mainland Europe) have problems getting spare parts, talk to us. We should be able to find a solution. Feel free to e-mail, fax or call for detailed information.

  sprl VELODROOM bvba urban mobility concepts Rue Van Arteveldestraat 41, Bruxelles 1000 Brussel tel/fax: 0032.2.513 81 99 mo.-sat. 10.00-18.30 velodroom@hotmail.com

• Yves Van Straelen, Jul 2000:
  La Maison du Vélo is the other offical Brompton dealer for the Brussels area. We have always the 5 models in stock and in different colors. Also lots of spare parts and travel bags. The shop is also specialised in touring bikes and equipement with 16 years experience.

  La Maison du Vélo Chaussée de Louvain 341, B1030 Brussels Tel / fax : 02 742 07 45 yves.vanstraelen12@yucom.be

Germany

• Rob Cope, Feb 1999:
  

  Henning Voss, Tulpenweg 2, D-25524, Itzehoe-Edendorf, Germany tel: +49 4821 78023 fax: +49 4821 79693 voss-spezialrad@t-online.de http://www.voss-spezialrad.de

Italy

• Liduine Reuser, Oct 1998:
  On searching the Internet I found this site : http://www.probike.it/shop.htm It has a Brompton link that doesn't work, but their address (in Firenze), email, telephone etc. is on the site. That's all I could find...
• Francesco Mombelli, Oct 2002:
  fact my company is the official distributor since 4 years as you can check on the official Brompton UK overseas distributor home page...
  here follows the link where you can find all the datails... http://brompton.mombelli.net

Australia

Taiwan

Neobike

Price

Quality

Neobike Office

Taipei Retailer

If you're close to the Far East

• Yoshinori MIZUMOTO:
  The differences between British and Taiwanese are "quality of components". Most of the components are made in Taiwan and cheap (no no, are reasonable). But the Sturmey Archer shifter is assembled. And we cannot use the optional "Front carrier block".
• Paul Collins, Dec 1997:
  I have recently purchased a Brompton here in Hong Kong, actually only two weeks ago. It is of the Taiwanese assembly and so far so good except ....
  The rubber suspension stopper has all but disintegrated after only using it only about 5 times and has basically fallen off !! I would not say that I am overweight at 6'1" weighing 85 Kgs (don't know what that is in pounds). I have only ridden on paved roads and concrete footpaths (not off-road).
  The dealer I purchased from is quite reputable so should have no trouble getting a replacement of this. However, I would not like to think this is going to be a recurring problem.
  Is this an experienced problem with a better solution than the standard rubber stopper ???
  On another issue, the standard brakes are rather poor. After leaving my mountain bike (which as excellent stopping power) this bike would take at least 2-3 times further to stop at similar speed. Is it just a matter of changing to quality brake pads (and longer) or it an issue with the antiquated side-pull brakes ?? Otherwise, is this unresolvable being related to the dynamics of 16" rims ???
• Steven M. Scharf, Feb 1998:
  On the Taiwanese Brompton the fender is held by an L bracket on the bolt that holds the rear brake, and by a plastic clip that goes around the rear of the rear rack. I think it is completely different than the UK Brompton.
  With or without rubbing, the fender interfered with proper operation of the rear brake. I am going to trim the fender plastic so it doesn't interfere with the brake, then see if it still rubs. Or I may just put a splash guard on the rear rack (I guess your L5 doesn't have a rear rack, but the Taiwanese L3 does), and see if that works in place of a fender.
  No doubt the Taiwanese Brompton is lower quality. The components are all probably bottom of the line. It's difficult to tell about the frame quality--it looks fine, but who knows what kind of steel they are using. For my use I could not justify spending $850 or so, but at $240 it became attractive even if I have to replace some components. If the frame breaks then it's a different story. I only know one other person with a Taiwanese model, and he said it was fine, but this was several years ago and I have lost contact with him.
• Steven M. Scharf, Feb 1998:
  I believe the real problem I'm having is that the fender simply does not properly fit under the brake; the rear brake didn't work properly until I removed the fender. I need to trim a bit of the plastic away so the fender can sit higher and not interfere with the brake or hit the tire.
• Custfold, Feb 1998:
  The original and if I recall correctly Taiwan Bromptons use a 1" headseat and correspondingly small steerer tube. This was considered too small & flexible in the light of service experience. Whilst the forces on a 'bent bars are likely to be smaller, as you can't honk up a hill, there may have been some apprehension on modifying the steerer to give potentially greater leverage on the headset and joints. Brompton are very thorough in testing the components to learn of expected fatigue life, and can usually tell you where the component will fail when overloaded - I usually prove them right....
• Arnold in Vancouver, BC Canada, Apr 98:
  Funny I bought two of them in the "west". I think you just have to be prepared to search them out.
  Also, I hate it when people say the Neobike's parts are lower quality I think the quality is extremely light at this price point. All I changed was the brake pads and hand grips.
• Katsuhiko Yano, Apr 1998:
  I have a Neobike Bromton,too.But I use the Brompton front pannier. I fit it by drilling two holes in the headset tube and fitting carrier block with bolts and T shape nuts (My friend found the nuts at hardware store and kindly sent to me).
  I have carried about 4 kg in the pannier for a year of daily use. I have no trouble but I am afraid to carry over 5 kg and test the strength of the block.
• David Henshaw, Apr 98:
  Brompton patents have proven defensible right across the world, although - as is well known in the industry - the patents do not have long to run. [...]
  The [Brompton] company probably rather regret the licensing agreement with Neobike as the Taiwanese company have not always been entirely honest and are not too scrupulous about paying Royalties. The Neobike machines are strictly NOT for sale in Europe, North America and Australia, but odd ones or twos have found their way in. Components are not all bad, and one or two are now fitted to new Bromptons, but the Neobike does not have the braze-on for the front carrier system - a major disadvantage. There's also some question marks over the engineering quality. All-in-all, I'm happy to have bought a Brompton, but I can see how the price of the Taiwanese bike must look tempting.
  
• John Derven, Apr 1998:
  Disclaimer: This is not an official response, as I am not affiliated with the Brompton company. On the other hand, I don't benefit from you purchasing your Brompton from one source or another.
  The Neobike frames are made by that company in Taiwan. They are "genuine" Bromptons in that they are made under license, but they are not identical to the British frames. The construction and finish is somewhat cruder than the British-made Bromptons, e.g. the top tube appears to be bent without a mandrel, which causes some distortion and wrinkling on the underside of the tube. I have also heard that the metallurgy of frame materials is less consistent than the British product. The Neobike Brompton weight is comparable to a similarly-equipped English-made Brompton from several years ago, which probably means the Neobike is heavier than the latest generation of British- made bikes. The component and accessory differences have already been noted on this list. Lastly, the Brompton licensing agreement for Neobike does not extend to North America. Some people may bring "pirated" Taiwan-made Bromptons into the States, but don't expect to be covered by the factory warranty.
  Full-Disclosure: (not a plug) I am a longtime folding bike fan and Product Manager from Burley- the North American distributor of the Birdy.
• Channell Wasson, Apr 1998:
  Neobike frames are made in Taiwan. They also are of diferent guage.
• Steven M. Scharf, Apr 1998:
  On the UK Brompton frame the decal says: "Brompton / Made in England." On the Taiwan Brompton frame the decal says: "Brompton / England"
• Steven M. Scharf, Jun 1998:
  I have a Taiwanese one and I seem to suffer the same problems as people have with the UK ones, no more or less. It's still rather new though.
  The components on the Taiwanese ones seem to be lower grade, i.e. the hubs and brakes. The headset is smaller diameter. There is no provision for the very cool Brompton front pannier (though people have been able to fit it by improvising). These were observations by UK Brompton owners on the last SF folder ride. I did hear once that the frame material was not as good on the Taiwanese models, but I have no evidence that this is true.
• Steven M. Scharf, Jul 1998:
  I have the Taiwanese made version of the Brompton, called the L3-T (it has the rear rack but no lights). It also comes with a nylon carrying bag, folding pedal, and pump. In Taiwan it was US$235.
  Overall I've been satisfied but there have been a couple of problems:
  1) The rear fender interferes with the operation of the rear brake. I tried for hours to adjust everything, but finally gave up and removed the fender.
  2) I noticed last week (after owning it for five months) that the right pedal was cross threaded into the crank arm. I had to order a set of Park pedal taps (pedal threads are 9/16" x 20 tpi, not something a hardware store has) to fix this.
  For a level ride the Brompton is fine. They're a little scary on hills because the brakes are poor, but this is a problem on the British ones too, and you learn to compensate. There has been a lot of discussion of remedies to this problem but I haven't done any of them yet.
• Ian R. Platt, Oct 1998:
  Made under license by Neobike. This is a bit of a hybrid: it has 3 gears, no lights, but does have a rear carrier frame (a heavy-duty wire job - not as nice as the UK version). More crucially, they do not have the holes in the stearing tube for the front carrier block. It may still be possible to fix this with a jubilee clip or some such - I think this was mentioned in a post a while back - but such an arrangement may not be as solid as the UK version. The Taiwan model has a pump, and it comes with a folding left pedal. It comes in more colours too! I've seen yellow, red, blue, a lovely racing green, and they have more union flag stickers on them than the UK version!
• Ian R. Platt, Nov 1998:
  [...] the Neobikes come with a lovely shoulder bag-type bag in the standard Ford range of colour. The bike sits in it and it zips up around the bike. It looked fairly well made but of course, you couldn't roll the bike along on the castors.
• Andrew Mccoy, Dec 1998:
  My Taiwan Brompton cost about $NT7000 earlier this year.
  The best way for your girlfriend to find a shop is to telephone NEOBIKE and ask them for the name of a reseller in her area. I think NEOBIKE will refer her first to the local distributor. My friends made a couple of phone calls for me when I was there. They gave me written instructions for a taxi to take me to the shop. Great entertainment in the bike shop as we mutually gestured about bike, colour, accessories, etc. Thankfully the owners grandson was present to speak a little school learnt English. Ah the joys of being an ugly western traveller with no local language.
  FWIW, The Taiwan Brompton is 3speed with rear carrier (but no front block) & comes with a carry bag and a seat bag to take the folded carry bag. I had a little problem with quality, so I suggest you get your girlfriend to take the bike out of the cardboard box and ride a little before she leaves the shop - listening for rattles, rubbing, stiffness, etc.
  The best entertainment was with the Hilton hotel door staff. They were all impressed by the bike, that it was Taiwanese made and wanted to know the cost. Never a problem to fold it and take it up to my room. Drivers in Tapei still expect to see cycles and Motor cycles, so I neve had any trouble with them - even when riding late at night.
  My Brompton came from a little shop down near the river in Tapei. However, I first saw them in the sports department of the AsiaWorld department store right opposite the main train station & MRT station where they were on sale for about $NT8500.
• PETE ALEX, Feb 1999:
  I have had a Neobike Brompton for over four years, in fact I've have two. One is in England (my home) and the other is in Hong Kong where I work for most of the year.
  Both are in black, with three-speed Sturmey Archer hub hears, rear rack fitted, mudguards, folding left-hand pedal included and were a lot cheaper to buy than in England. Though I've seen mention of build quality problems, I've never had a problem with either of them. The one in Hong Kong gets the most use, and I've seen quite a few other people using them. One odd thing is that in Hong Kong, it's virtually immpossible to get spare tyres! The only 16 inch ones are the smaller, fatter type usually seen on Asian built bikes like Dahon, etc. Anyway, it's no problem in the UK and I get replacements from there when needed.
  There are quite a few shops selling Neobike Bromptons, and the price varies depending on the location of the shop, the nationality of the person asking the price, and whether you look like you are a tourist or living here. The place in Hong Kong where I got my two bikes say they can send them if necessary.
  The price last Saturday (when I asked) is HK$3800 each including the freight charge and insurance to England. Usually for payment from overseas you need to go to a bank and buy a draft which you send to the shop.
  The person to contact is Wong Lai Mui on fax 852 (for Hong Kong) then 2625 4030 or you can email me direct and I will ask any questions you have.
  By the way, I did try direct from Taiwan, before buying my second Brompton. However the hassles were just to much. Hardly anyone spoke English there, and no one really wanted to send out one-off orders. However I guess the prices would be cheaper, if you can do it!
• Steven M. Scharf, Feb 2000:
  First of all, there are no Bromptons made in China. Neobike makes Bromptons under license in Taiwan. They have one model, the L3A which is better than the UK Brompton, at least in terms of components, and one model the L3B which is not as good as the UK Brompton. The brakes on the L3B stop just as poorly as the brakes on the UK Bromptons, on the L3A there are V-Brakes.
  See:
  http://www.neobike.com/l3a.html
  http://www.neobike.com/l3b.html
  I don't know if the L3A is actually in production as the bike shop in Taipei that carries Bromptons said that they couldn't get them.
  I have two of the L3Bs, the last one I purchased in Taiwan in January 2000 for about $255 with left folding pedal and carrying bag. The first one was a little less due to the currency exchange rates. These have been fine so far.
• Stephen Casey, Feb 2000:
  I'm an owner of both the English T3 and the Taiwanese (actually I have two) L3B (it is more a T3 like version-since it has the touring rack). And I live in SF. You are welcome to look at the two side by side and "kick the tires" so to speak. I've been using the one Neobike regularly with the CalTrain between Hillsdale/San Mateo and Potrero Hill. Let's face it, there are some pretty awful design flaws and I could go on about those-most notably the brakes. Probably a little inferior manufacturing, but the English one is not that much better. The english version is based on a good idea-which by the way the taiwanese version is identical here-but that's about it. There is not much technical superiority of the english version over the taiwanese version, anyone who tells you otherwise is fooling everyone. Both could be a lot better for certain, but let's not kid ourselvelves that one is FAR superior to the other-they both could stand many technical advancements.
  Oops . . . I've said too much. Sorry, I get a little peeved when people start aluding that the english Brompton is some sort of standard for excellence in folding bike-speak.
• Steven M. Scharf, Feb 2000:
  I agree with all of this. The Neobike is only slightly inferior to the UK made unit. Neither is made with wonderful components. However with the UK model you get a lot of expertise from Channell in terms of upgrades of stuff like brakes and gearing, both of which are not very good for this area the way the bike comes from the factory. Also the Neobike doesn't support the front luggage system.
  There are many superior folding bikes in terms of components, durability, and ridability, such as the Montague, the Gaerlan, and even some of the Dahons, but these others don't fold as small or as fast as the Brompton, which after all is what attracts people to the Brompton in the first place.
• Andras Toth, Feb 2000:
  You might be interested to hear what happened when, reading the ongoing discussion about Neobikes I sent a buyer enquiry to them via Internet out of pure curiosity. Since I am in France for six months I indicated my postal address here. Actually, Neobike forwarded my request to Brompton UK, who answered that Neobike are only entitled to sell their products in the Far East.
• PETE ALEX, Feb 2000:
  I have had two of the Taiwan built Bromptons, and have used them for years, one in Hong Kong, the other in the UK (I commute between the two places on a regular basis). No problems, the gearing is Sturmy Archer from the UK, the back carrier is better, the extras that cost more on the UK model, are standard fitting on the Taiwan model. There is even a wide choice of colours available, immediately from stock. Okay, there is not provision for the front carrier/bag, but with a price of less than half the UK model, I can handle that. Many quality bicycles are made in Taiwan, as are most components, it's just a fact that's not shouted out loudly by sales assistants. On an organised Brompton ride in south London last year, most other Bromtoneers couldn't see any real difference.
  Finally, talking about prices. It seems to me that Bromptons, and indeed many other products in the west, and especially overpriced. Whether it is the intention of the manufacturer and/or supplier. Perhaps it's taxes applied by governments. But whatever it is, it seems that the consumer, that is you and I are the ones who suffer. The rate of pay for a factory worker in Taiwan is about the same as that of one in the UK. Certainly they don't pay as much in income tax, other taxes are less too. Even so, they have the (Taiwanese) Bromton for sale on the streets at around US$250, it was more before, but exchange rates have changed somewhat quite recently.
  And one more finally! Talking about development. I would say Neobike have done their fair share of that. Was it not them that developed the light-weight aluminium Brompton that was on show in Japan a year ago?

Is there some advantage over getting direct from UK vs from Channell in California?

• Jerry Kaidor, Aug 1999:
  Just price. The things are cheaper in the UK. Also, I effectively got free shipping, because I had a checked baggage right to spare. And, since I didn't buy much else on that trip, I got them home duty-free! I even got the VAT returned, since I took them out of Europe.
  Whereas Channell has to pay for shipping and duty. Then he needs to take some profit on his shipping and duty. And charge me sales tax on top of that! This is offset to some extant by his being local and being able to supply warrantee service. If my Bromptons die, I'll need to ship them back to the U.K.
  The second "advantage" was purely personal and psychological. My wife had dragged me along on this monumentally boring transatlantic cruise. A empty three-week hole had been carved out of my life. Surely there was something interesting and useful I could accomplish during the cruise?
• Marvin E. Gozum, MD, Aug 1999:
  However, looking as his prices and the prices listed on the UK Brompton site they are nearly identical?

Mail order

Richard Taylor:
You might try talking to

St John St Cycles, (44) 1278 423632 91-93 St John Street Bridgewater, TA6 5HX Somerset

I do not have a fax number for them (they do have one), but they are a pretty good mail order company
St Johns, by the way, do not discount Bromptons

Where can I find a second hand Brompton?

• David Henshaw, Apr 98:
  Generally, Bromptons are quite rare second-hand, and there's little point in buying one anyway. The second-hand price tends to mirror the new price without adjustment for inflation. If you paid £300 a few years ago, you will get £300 now. If you pay £500 today, you'll get £500 in a few years, etc. Good if you're selling, but bad news if you are buying - the new bikes are much lighter than even last year's examples. Having said that, I met someone recently who found two new Bromptons in the local free-paper for £350 the pair. A real bargain. When he arrived, the phone was ringing continuously.
  Then there's the (true) story of the boss who bought one for his plane, but didn't like it, so asked his secretary to sell it. She put the brand-new bike in the local paper for £25...
  Just a personal view - don't waste £500 on a 'T' type. Go for the cheapest, lightest bike... a £390 L3, but add the front carrier block, and buy some luggage and Primo tyres when you can afford it. You will love you L3 much more, and it'll keep its value better than a 'T'.

How do I inspect a second-hand Brompton?

• "Crunchy" noise of feeling in the rear hub, or gears that don't engage or disengage right.
• slack rear triangle hinge : lift the saddle slightly so the rear triangle's rubber block doesn't touch the frame, and push the bottom of the saddle post sideways back and forth : you may feel something moving slightly, but if you can see the rear triangle and the main frame "bending" with your naked eye, that's bad.
• Paint that lifts around a weld.
• Hinge plates (the U-shaped aluminium thingies that hold the bike together) bottoming out on the frame
• Rust on the inside face of the hinges.
• Worn/damaged saddle post clamp : the post should be locked with a reasonable amount of force to the clamp. If you have to push like crazy, that may not be right. Also check for lifting paint and/or rust in the area.
• Bad BB or failing chainring : make sure you don't hear or feel any clicking noise that follows the pedalling rythm when you pedal. If you do hear something, try to pedal harder on one pedal, then the next, to see if it doesn't come from the folding pedal.
• Worn chainring/chain/sprocket : push the chain outward on the chainring, where it's fully engaged : if the chain moves and you can see between the chain and the teeth, you might have to change the chainring and the chain.
• Worn front hub : lift the front wheel, spin it by hand, and try to listen to something crunchy, or feel an uneven resistance. Also see if there's play when you rock the edge of the wheel back and forth.
• Worn folding pedal : pedal on the bike and check that it doesn't feel out of true under your left foot. Check using both sides of the platform.
• Damage to the rim walls
• Worn tires : not a problem in itself, but if the owner claims to use the bike only seldom and the tires are bare to the thread, beware. Also watch for bald patches on the rear tires, that might indicate the guy has a habit of locking the rear wheel to brake, which in turn may indicates abuse to the bike.
• Slack brake levers : if you rock the brake levers back and forth, there should be a little play, but excessive play, or significantly more play on one lever than the other may indicate the owner crashed (and the bike landed on one lever).
• General condition of the bike : if the brakes aren't well adjusted, if the pain is in good condition, if the chain looks like it hasn't seen lubrication in a long time, if there's crud accumulating where it's not too easy to clean ... A clean and well adjusted bike means a careful owner.

Where to order custom parts for a Brompton

• In the USA, Channell Wasson (http://www.foldabikes.com) and Len Rubin (http://www.ufbusa.com).
• In the UK, <<Custom Folder>> and Ben Cooper
• A to B magazine are also a source of minor items and major information.
• In continental Europe, Thorsten Rentel sparked Velodroom and later conquered Denmark.